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For a street truck I don't know why anyone would go through the expense of swapping. I have a truck that can drive to Maryland from CT and lay down a nine second pass without using spray. On spray? Well, a whole lot deeper into the nines...

It takes torque to move this platform. Especially if near stock weights. The 5.4 is well suited to the task.


Jim
 

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Mine makes 700 and I could drive it every day if I had to but 10 miles per gallon and it will blow the tires off if I punch it
Don't know why it gets such bad mileage. Mine gets better than it did stock on highway trips. Believe it or not I lost mileage swapping to the 3.55s from 3.73. I figured that would have gone the other way.

Jim
 

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Don't know why it gets such bad mileage. Mine gets better than it did stock on highway trips. Believe it or not I lost mileage swapping to the 3.55s from 3.73. I figured that would have gone the other way.

Jim
I know this will come as a shock to you but you will find that most built motor trucks are "driven" for fun, meaning the loud pedal is used quite often, which has an affect on fuel mileage....

I'm also certain Jack is not sitting there calculating exact fuel mileage all the time or really cares much about it.

JJ
 

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an aggressive cam or tune can actually increase gas mileage (improve) ..to a point.

basic physics in increasing the unit's ability "to do work"

however that usually results in light load mileage improvements as when you hit the happy peddle you begin doing "work"at a different rate

I could see going from a 373 to a 355 hurting mileage around town..simply less mechanical advantage on "rollout" therefore more energy ,fuel, is used to maintain driving style or habits

my humble little N/A 5.4 (373) originally got 15-19 mpg
according to the in time fuel mileage on my edge tuner my Volant air box was good for 2 mpg
switching up to the performance tune my truck gets 20-22 mpg at 40-45 mph and 25.8 at 50--55
but if I push it to 60-70 mph my mileage tanks back to 13 mph thanks to it's enriched fuel curve I suppose

I suppose that's a different kind of " most I got outta my truck" but with gas at $1.70 a liter .. it matters
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
an aggressive cam or tune can actually increase gas mileage (improve) ..to a point.

basic physics in increasing the unit's ability "to do work"

however that usually results in light load mileage improvements as when you hit the happy peddle you begin doing "work"at a different rate

I could see going from a 373 to a 355 hurting mileage around town..simply less mechanical advantage on "rollout" therefore more energy ,fuel, is used to maintain driving style or habits

my humble little N/A 5.4 (373) originally got 15-19 mpg
according to the in time fuel mileage on my edge tuner my Volant air box was good for 2 mpg
switching up to the performance tune my truck gets 20-22 mpg at 40-45 mph and 25.8 at 50--55
but if I push it to 60-70 mph my mileage tanks back to 13 mph thanks to it's enriched fuel curve I suppose

I suppose that's a different kind of " most I got outta my truck" but with gas at $1.70 a liter .. it matters
So after looking over the items list that the guy gave me I pulled the bed to see what fuel pump was in there and low and behold it's a holley sniper efi 340 after talking to the tech guy he said with forced induction that single pump can run 600 or so HP . I figured I pulled the bed off I might as well add another 340 pump before I put it back in so I don't have to screw with it for a while. I see they heat shrunk the connections but the heat shrink was not holding up and recommendations once I cut and resolder everything
 

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I just wish the parts to finish assembling my nitrous kit would come in so I can get my shit I ordered almost a year ago.
I hate to go off topic but what are you waiting for? I also have some goodies waiting to go on. I still plan to install once my truck is buttoned up just to make sure it works. Not pictured is the fuel cell. Fuel pump is mounted and that's all i've done so far.
 

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If I ever do a swap it would only be for a badass aluminum block 4V setup.

For now I'm happy with my current setup, 2.3KB @ ~3,6XXlbs truck weight is plenty fun for the street. Don't have to worry about blowing shit up on every WOT run lol
 

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The advantage doesn't lie with the coyote itself. It is the whole platform. They are lighter and have 10 speed tranny's. Get a gen 2 down the the weights that alot of the coyote trucks are at and put a 10 speed behind a built 2v and see what happens. You still have to modify a stock coyote to live with oil pump gears etc.. so it's no longer stock. It's just a 15 year technological advancement. In 20 years people with probably say coyotes are trash compared to whatever is new lol. When you start talking about going fast it's all gonna cost you big $$.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 
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If I ever do a swap it would only be for a badass aluminum block 4V setup.

For now I'm happy with my current setup, 2.3KB @ ~3,6XXlbs truck weight is plenty fun for the street. Don't have to worry about blowing shit up on every WOT run lol
Wow you have yours light! If you have the time, I would love to see you make a thread about all your weight savings tricks.

Jim
 

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Wow you have yours light! If you have the time, I would love to see you make a thread about all your weight savings tricks.

Jim
I pretty much have every weight reduction mod you can do to these trucks.

The biggest weight savings to get me down to into the 3,6XXlbs range was the inner bed delete.

My next phase would be aluminum block + power rack + cut frame horns all the way back to get me down into the low 3,5XXlbs range.

Tire Wheel Vehicle Motorcycle Automotive lighting
 

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My gen 2 probably makes over 1000 at the motor full tilt... Not too hard to do either. lotta boost and little spray haha. But I wouldn't swap it for a coyote... Especially a gen 1 or 2. And if you are going to swap to a coyote it would be useless without the 10 speed behind it. Coyotes don't make good torque and need the gearing to go fast.. especially in trucks. So you need a coyote with at least oil pump gears/crank sprocket, 10 speed trans with some upgrades, new driveshaft, and the ford racing controls pack to control the engine and trans. That doesn't include any power adders or nickel and dime stuff. Bet you would have near $30k into a proper coyotes swap that would make over 1000hp and go fast.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
amen brother, each gen has its ups and downs, but the money trail involves both ,,,,,,,
 

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My .02;

1) Killer chillers work when done correctly.
2) They are rarely ever done correctly.
3) Lightnings and Harleys were making 6-700hp way before Coyote's came out. We dominated most all Mustangs in the 1/8th and 1/4 mile, then the Gen2 Coyote came out and bigger superchargers, better transmissions, better tuning, E85 etc... and thats where we are today.

This past weekend I went on a cruise with a local mustang club and I was the only Lightning. My 21 year old truck with a built motor, built trans, 15 year old exhaust, stock eaton on E85 making just shy of 590hp got more attention than any of those Mustangs did. So all that technology, Gen 2, Gen 3 Coyote, Voodoo this and Predator that... and my old ass Eaton Supercharged 5.4 2V did better sideways burnouts then any of them, sounded way better, got the lions share of attention and looked more like a hot rod then any of them. I'll stick with what I got...

LS's suck

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my man (y)
 

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Wow. Lol.

Here's what I say. Coyote is 100% better than 5.4L Modulars as is GEN3+ LS/LT (especially in 5.4L SOHC forum) Look I'm someone who always defends the 5.4L when people say that they're unreliable POS. I say not in 2V or 4V form when maintained correctly. In fact my L is the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned other than maybe a 93 Civic DX. In my experience a stock 5.4L is not some unreliable engine like people make it out to be.

If you really want to understand why SOHC Modulars make such poor performance engines a good way to do this is to get into cars with an OHV engine. IMHO OHC is a waste of time if you're not going to run more than 2V a cylinder. Generally speaking your N/A OHV guys have a much better understanding of how engine's move air efficiently, and make power, etc. Modular guys often just understand that early Modulars for some reason were just slow, and then 03 Cobra comes along and they see that a forged DOHC V8 with boost can make a bunch of power and they respond well to mods and their knowledge kind of ends there.

My opinion as to why a 2V Modular is so weak relative to many other engines is it's got way too small of a bore diameter for a V8 with only 16V's. I feel that a 2V V8 that's made to perform should have at minimum a 4" bore. IMO a LS1/LS6 has too small a bore diameter. This is why I'm not a fan of a 5.3L, because at 3.78" its bore is too small for a 2V engine trying to compete bigger or boosted engines. People love to knock the GEN5 5.3L in the newer GM truck, but IMO GM deserves some props for getting 355 HP/383 LB-FT out of a 2V engine with a small bore and a relatively low/regular octane friendly CR. On a 2V engine you need a bore diameter that's large enough to fit larger valves in them that can move more air. It's like anything else. Larger electrical wiring is going to flow more currant. Larger diameter water piping is going to flow more water than small piping. Same with an engine. It's got to be able to move air efficiently to make good power.

Really what popular engine with Hot Rodders that came from the Muscle Car era used less than a 4" bore diameter? I can't think of any. 289/302/351 SBF all used a 4" bore. 350 SBC uses a 4" bore. All your BBC/BBF that were/are popular for racing uses much larger bores than 4". I say all this to say that IMO a 2v engine is a performance application shouldn't use less than a 4" bore. Look at the 5.7L and 6L LS engines for example. The 5.7L's LS uses a 3.898" bore while the 6L's use a 4" bore. A LS1/LS6 can make some decent power but the relatively small increase in bore diameter the 6L LS has gives it head options that flow quite a good damn bit more than the head options for the 3.9" blocks. A Modulars 3.552" bore is pathetic for a 2V engine. It's no wonder these things can rev out much. They can't move enough air to support higher RPM's. It's especially odd when combined with a 4.165" stroke. A 5.4L uses a very weird bore/stroke setup. It actually looks backwards. (A GEN4/GEN5 6.2L SBC uses a 4.065" bore with a 3.622" stroke for example) With that much stroke in that small a bore it's kind of surprising that the 5.4L's don't suffer from rod angle issues or something. The only factory automotive engine I can think of that came with a longer stroke than a 5.4L is the Vortec 8100 which is basically a 454 BBC that replaces it's 4" stroke with a 4.375" stroke and was only uses as the gas engine in the old HD GM trucks from 15-20 years ago.

Someone said why the newer stuff is faster is due to the transmissions or more specifically the 10R80 used on the GEN3 Coyote. I say yes and no. Yes a 10R80 is 50 x's better than a 4R100 for a performance vehicle. I would take a 10R80 in my L before I would a built engine with a TS. It is that good. Don't believe me then go drive a 18+ MGT with a A10 and put it in its drag mode and get back with me. No, there are 480+ BHP Coyotes in Mustang Bullitt and Mach 1's. I believe the best factory N/A 5.4L made 375 BHP in the 00 Cobra R. Coyote is just a better engine. I don't want to over-hype it, but it's just really F'in good. Coyote doesn't need a bunch of low end grunt. Leave that to engines like 2V Modulars and Egoboost who start to fall off just as Coyote it start to take off good in it's powerband. Coyote has this really impressive ability to be an RPM oriented engine that doesn't lug long and hard while trying to pull itself into its powerband. Even a GEN1 Coyote with a M6 and 3.31 rear gear doesn't feel like say an 01 Cobra or a LS1 where it's straining to get into its powerband before surging at 4K RPM's into a strong topend pull. Even a lightly modded GEN2 Lightning struggles more than most Coyote vehicles I've driven to get into its powerband, and with its transmission that was developed to be used with a 7.3L PSD that's just the truth.

Look I love my L. I wouldn't Coyote swap it. For the same reason I wouldn't LS swap a Terminator or 93 Cobra. I'd LS/Coyote swap the hell out of a 91 LX Notch or a 00 GT or a run of the mill GEN10 F150, but the specialty vehicles such as the SVT's are different. You can make a GEN2 Lightning a very fast truck without straying too far from it's basic formula. You don't have to Coyote swap a Terminator to make it fast as hell, but truth be told is that a Coyote is better than a 4.6L DOHC Modular.

I'll say one other negative about a Lightning is that it's OEM engine/transmission is not the most rewarding to mod. Firstly you're sweating about sending a rod through your block. Secondly your not making the gains that most boosted vehicles would for the $ and effort put into them. (Why do you think Egoboost is so popular? It's not that impressive, but instead it's expected for a fairly larger/boosted V6. These new gen Egoboosts are running 10.5:1 CR's and people are pushing 20+ PSI's thru them, of course they're going to make strong power) I made 490 WHP and 502 lb-ft with an 03 Cobra just running a unported M112 and a 2.93" upper making about 12/13 PSI's, a K&N FIPK, O/R Prochamber, Magnaflow C/B and I think that's its for the power mods. (Just telling you what the dynojet registered so no need for a bunch of BS's called) That was a rewarding car to mod as I got large gains for little $ and effort, while not having to worry much about the engine supporting that HP. The GEN3 Coyote is much the same as a Terminator. Your common mods produce noticeable performance gains. A good tune and some E85 in an otherwise stock car is a very noticeable improvement with a new Coyote. If you've got the $ to ball out and get serious about modding a L then yes I'm sure it's very rewarding.
 
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