Lightning Rodder banner

1 - 20 of 52 Posts

·
10 Second Club!!!
Joined
·
5,573 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
im in the process of buying a motor from JJ at WMS in the next few weeks and im torn between stage 3 heads and TF. can the guys running TF tell me more about them. are you guys running the following

1. track heat or twisted wedge?

2. what specs did you choose with the heads?

3. what cams are you running and specs on cams?

if i go with TF i want the right combo to make the most out of my cams and heads. i meant to ask JJ more about this on the phone but didnt think of it at the time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
621 Posts
I am in the same boat just picked up a JLP shortblock and torn between the two. And am looking fo some more info on them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,181 Posts
This is what Im tracking on the Trick flows. They are all the twisted wedge. They are only offered in 38cc and 44cc combustion chambers. The track heat version is just upgraded to the better spring (more vc pressure approx 120lb i believe). They are working on a Race version from what I understand. I tried to wait on this casting but its just taking to long. The race version from what I understand will be thicker in the roof area of the intake runners. Main advantage is that this set will all more flexability for porting. If your doing a new build and can afford it, I cant see not using them just based on the heads combustion chamber improvement. Best to talk to those who have been tuning with them thus far for cam reccomendations to see what has been working.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,345 Posts
Track heat, 38cc, hand ported for a couple more cfm.

Although I do agree that the cams should be designed for the unique valve layout of the TF heads, I don't agree with people who choose camshafts based on cylinder head flow....you should choose the cam based on intended use, how heavy the truck is, gear ratio, torque converter and blower size.....cylinder head flow should be way down on the list. There are not that many lobe masters available for the Mod motors so the choices are a lot fewer than a pushrod motor.....never the less the lobes that are available are good ones.

I was one of the guys that thought the TF heads would blow the PI casting off the map but that obviously hasn't happened.....that doesn't tell me how bad the TF heads are because I couldn't think of a better design within the confines of a 2V layout....but what it does tell me is how good the stock PI casting really is. The PI casting has it's limits, it is a lightweight casting compared to the TF so it is a rather delicate piece....it was designed probably with more of an eye towards emissions than horsepower which caused a few more limitations. But if you stay inside of its limits and don't run too much timing and don't run it out of fuel and don't run excess boost....the little bastards make a ton a power for what they are.

Some guys are questioning the fact that the TF head requires quite a bit more timing than the PI head :smt102 My opinion is the TF head flow air into the cylinder much like a 4V head does....it's a tumble port design and points the air flow darn near straight down the cylinder, there are differences in volume of air flow and spark plug location but I bet you could take a 4V timing map and a TF timing map and lay them over each other and not see much differences.

On the other hand the PI head couldn't be more different....the air flows in at a cokeyed angle and bounces the air flow off the side of the cylinder wall and it travels in a circular motion around the bore as it follows the piston down the bore....this causes a lot af mixture motion and a high level "activity" in the combustion chamber.....this is emissions stuff and also the reason why this junky little cylinder head makes so damn much power....up to a point....it is also the reason the cylinder head has it's limits....when the boost goes up the activity goes up...you can tell this happening when the cylinder head starts to melt at 10* timing when any other head on the planet would need 22*.

Most of the above is just my opinion and should be taken with a grain of salt ;)
 

·
My junk is SOLD!!!!!
Joined
·
2,260 Posts
I havent been all that impressed with what I've seen from my own build and from other builds with these heads. Granted they are designed way better than the PI, but I find myself asking why I bought into the hype most of the time. My passenger side head dropped a valve at about 3000 miles, too.... builder error or faulty head, I'll never know but it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I wasnt looking to be a 750 hp monster, just wanted a powerful street truck and I think the PI heads could've done just that and saved me some cash in the process.
 

·
10 Second Club!!!
Joined
·
5,573 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
yea that cleared up some of the questions i have that wasnt posted
 

·
10 Second Club!!!
Joined
·
5,573 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I havent been all that impressed with what I've seen from my own build and from other builds with these heads. Granted they are designed way better than the PI, but I find myself asking why I bought into the hype most of the time. My passenger side head dropped a valve at about 3000 miles, too.... builder error or faulty head, I'll never know but it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I wasnt looking to be a 750 hp monster, just wanted a powerful street truck and I think the PI heads could've done just that and saved me some cash in the process.

my build right now will consist of a WMS short block, comp cams probably stage 2 xe270 and either pi or tf heads. and bolted on top will be a 2.3kenne bell with 8lb lower with 3.5upper for street and 8lb lower with 3.0 for race tune once motor is broke in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
329 Posts
The main issue was the hype on these heads. When MM&FF ford tested these heads they posted the results showing that the TF heads picked up 30+ hp over ported PI. These results were never repeated nor should they have been. While flow is just one aspect of a head, it is still an important one. The TF heads only flow 10-15 CFM over a quality set of ported PI which does not reflect a 30+ hp gain on a NA engine. But unfortunately several people with ported PI heads made the switch and only picked up 10-15hp and it is easy to see why things went south. If you are starting from fresh with stock heads than it maybe worth the extra couple of hundred $$$ to pick the TF over a set of ported PI. The main advantages I see if the TF are one I can raise the compress by going with the 38cc and run more timing this will boost low end and help get our heavy trucks moving.

Bad L is spot one with his statement on camshafts:bigtu, I would add once you get to the flow consideration look at the ratio between Int and Exh, when you have nearly 90% int to exh it is time to start thinking about a single pattern cam. Most off the shelf blower cams have that 4-8 degree split which is more common for a centrifugal charger with an 80-85% int to exh ratio not for our instant boost root or screw.

Just my thoughts also.

Cory
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,174 Posts
I really need to get my truck to the track. TF heads for me thus far have been great. I got a cam grind based on a conversation about what the vehicle was and how it was going to be driven, right down to talking about what stall, trans, final gear, and weight reduction mods would be done. It makes really good power on a fairly conservative tune, but that doesn't tell half the story. Hence why I keep saying I cant wait to get it to the track. This thing moves out unlike any other L I've been in (minus one crazy turbo truck). I'll see if I can get a video sometime of a little 'getting on the freeway' pull or something (theres not too many places around here I can just go rip on it without popo's being up my ass instantly after, other than that).

I say get the TF's and don't look back, they have quite a number of advantages and its not like you're upgrading from one set of good heads to another, you're going from stock to something that you want to have potential. Well, these give you potential and reliability in ways that a set of PI heads sound like they wont.


Oh and they sound ****ing cool @ WOT with a good tuned exhaust system too.
 

·
10 Second Club!!!
Joined
·
5,573 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
ok i have another question i seen a post that someone made talking about how great of gas mileage there were getting with the TF is there any truth to that or what?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,841 Posts
I have been doing some research since Jerry's engine is coming out next week...I have talked to at least one person that works extensively on modular heads and his opinion is that the TF's are not as good quality wise as the PI castings...In his opinion there is a lot more air bubbles in the castings and wonders about strength...I guess there has been some changes in mgmt. at TrickFlow, so maybe the early heads don't have this problem.
 

·
I paid my buck-o-five
Joined
·
75,537 Posts
In too have been researching and I believe that the trick flows do better in higher RPM motors
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
400 Posts
I agree RPM is what we aren't seeing thus far, 5.4l barely qualifies as a small block yet we aren't spinning them any higher than an old 460 yet we expect mountain motor numbers, I'd love to see someone build one for 7-7500 rpm then see what a TF can do?
 

·
10 Second Club!!!
Joined
·
5,573 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
well im so tight on money for this built motor so im leaning towards whats been working for years and putting the trucks down the 1/4 in 10sec. ill just send my heads to JJ and have him port match them to the cams and ill have stage 2 cams and stage 3 heads
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
400 Posts
On another forum Greg at TFS swears the R heads will be available in Jan. hmmm
and he was hinting at a 4valve head as well, and yes I know JLP has a set of R heads already
If the decision wasn't hard enough already
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,722 Posts
From what I've seen when comparing the TF's to PI's, everbody goes straight to the question of out of the box power. IMO the TF's make their power thru brains not brawn. There's more design in makin a more efficient combustion process & they also alow power to be made from timing, a lot more timing than the PI's. With that said I went w/ a long block & TF's w/ custom L&M cams from JJ. I felt I would have more growing room with the combo, but I can't compare it to a PI combo because the tuning isn't finished yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,207 Posts
Airflow & RPM; start making builds with loser converters, cams that make more power higher and start shifting above 6k
 
1 - 20 of 52 Posts
About this Discussion
51 Replies
26 Participants
svtlightning02
Lightning Rodder
Join our Lightning Rodder community to discuss the supercharged Ford F150 SVT and Harley Davidson edition pickup.
Full Forum Listing
Top