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Wile E. Coyote, Super Genius!
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@cbxer55 you got that article/link?
I can’t seem to find his stuff anymore, but I do remember someone saying they did have archives of it.
I'm at work, getting ready to head for home. I'll post it for you when I get there. I have it on my Favorite's list and it always seems to work for me. I'd try to find it in a previous post of mine, I've posted it quite frequently. But the computers are so slow here, I could likely not find it in the time I have remaining.
 

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Slevin
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1,008 Posts
@cbxer55 you got that article/link?
I can’t seem to find his stuff anymore, but I do remember someone saying they did have archives of it.
All of the stuff is live now on my website.
www.becauseracetruck.tech
http://www.becauseracetruck.tech/Modules/Suspension/panhard_bar.html

It may not be super pretty (as it is entirely 10+ year old HTML), but it preserves the information. Notice there are no ads or ways to generate revenue. Its solely for the sake of preserving the info.
 

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We all have learned to take what Captain Crunch (Capt EKB) says with a really super large grain of salt. I mean, even Tim Skelton, who road raced a Lightning, had a custom made pan hard bar installed on it to handle the cornering forces. I for one, will not remove mine because he says it's a bad idea. Been on there too long, proving him entirely wrong.
Sir,
"proving him entirely wrong." This link confirms EVERY single word I typed.

Techtips - Muscle Car Handling Upgrades: Rear Suspension System
https://www.cartechbooks.com/techtips/muscle-car-handling-upgrades-rear-suspension...

Binding

"This is simply resistance to movement. Binding issues turn up very frequently in rear suspension design because you’re often asking bushings to be compliant in more than one direction at once. That is to say they can’t simply pivot, they need to pivot and twist at the same time. Depending on the hardness or durometer of the bushings and the rigidity of the other suspension components, this can lead to effectively altering the dynamic wheel rates of the rear suspension. This effect is often non linear. That’s a good recipe for quirky handling so you generally want to avoid unnecessary binding in any suspension system."

" Poly bushings can have non-linear binding issues due to their inherently high degree of static friction."

"The Panhard bar is the easiest to fabricate and install. You should try to set its height near the natural RC of the leaf springs, make it as long as humanly possible, and keep it level with the ground at ride height for best performance. The Pan-hard bar works best on suspensions with limited vertical travel. This is because its axle-mounted end travels in an arc that laterally displaces the rear axle, which induces binding with the leaf springs, and can cause erratic suspension behavior. Remember that some bushing configurations help to minimize this issue, while others aggravate it. This is yet another reason to think before you build.

" The Pan-hard bar works best on suspensions with limited vertical travel. This is because its axle-mounted end travels in an arc that laterally displaces the rear axle, which induces binding with the leaf springs, and can cause erratic suspension behavior. Remember that some bushing configurations help to minimize this issue, while others aggravate it. This is yet another reason to think before you build."

" I get more in depth with the Panhard and Watts designs in Chapter 3. But as they pertain to leaf-spring suspensions, the Watts link is generally the superior of the two."

Now, Sir, you stated, "Been on there too long, proving him entirely wrong."
The author writes, "This is a common place for hot rodders and sometimes even race car builders to miss their mark. In pursuit of better performance in one aspect, on one end of the car, they sometimes cause a conflict with the other end. The difference is that when this happens to the race-car guys, they know it, and the street-car guys often don’t. In a competitive environment if your car isn’t set up just so… you lose. If it’s bad, you lose bad. Hmm, time for a few changes then. With a street car the builder is often unaware that he’s left quite a lot of performance and/or drivability on the table, because he doesn’t have a really good yardstick to measure the car’s performance.

I hope you saved some "Big grains of salt" to eat with your crow...lol

Keith
 

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Wile E. Coyote, Super Genius!
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I'm not eating crow because I'm not removing the pan hard bar from my truck. I've not felt any evidence of binding. Matter-of-fact, since I put both shocks behind the axle and replaced them with QA-1's, when the shocks are set on #1, the rear floats over road irregularities so nice and smooth, feels like a big tuna boat. Yet, take it to my favorite stretch of curves, and it feels like it's a slot car on a track.

I'm not going to even bother to read whatever that link is. I do have a lot of salt around here though. My body just can't handle it like it could when I was younger.

So the body moves a little as the vehicle goes up and down. At least it's kept to a small amount and controlled, not uncontrolled as it otherwise would be.

No one makes a Watts Link for these vehicles, or I'd likely have one. There are quite a few guys on this site that have pan hard bars on their L's, some road race them. I'm not hearing any complaints from them. I'll roll with that instead of what you posted.

SEEYA!!:bolt
 

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Yes focus on the rear of the spring at the hanger area, That is where you will see the most movement, at least I did!!! The Ford is set up with the spring above the hanger near the bed but it is the same idea!!! :bigtu
 

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Wile E. Coyote, Super Genius!
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Yes focus on the rear of the spring at the hanger area, That is where you will see the most movement, at least I did!!! The Ford is set up with the spring above the hanger near the bed but it is the same idea!!! :bigtu
Yeah, I hate the spring above the hanger. Other vehicles with the spring below the hanger, when you lower them you put shorter hangers on. Our trucks require longer hangers, thus more movement. It is what it is. That Spyder Brace that BroncoBeater used to make was very useful for eliminating flex at the hangers, since it tied the hangers into the frame more robustfully, I sure wish he, or someone else, would make them again. Not likely though.
 

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Yeah, I hate the spring above the hanger. Other vehicles with the spring below the hanger, when you lower them you put shorter hangers on. Our trucks require longer hangers, thus more movement. It is what it is. That Spyder Brace that BroncoBeater used to make was very useful for eliminating flex at the hangers, since it tied the hangers into the frame more robustfully, I sure wish he, or someone else, would make them again. Not likely though.
he measure my truck for a spyder bracer last year and was waiting for his call when it was ready. I should text him to see if he actually made it, but lost my #.
 

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Tests and updates coming soon.
I am looking forward to what the camera actually does see!!! As I said my old truck had about 70,000 miles on the Bellteck rear shackles I realize new bushings would help but I feel there will be a fare amount of movement. If nothing else the Panhard bar will take the load off those bushings.
 

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Jeffv333
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2,234 Posts
Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Updates on the main thread.

Damn...hats off to Chuck! Everyone needs to pitch in a dollar to buy that man a 20 case of his choice! Lol what a brilliant man.

I should state, first time I drove and did the test, I did do them in two days. So it was hard to remember how the truck drove before and after. Today I did the tests the same day, and yes, there is a noticeable difference Mc BUT not a drastic difference. But there definitely is a difference.
 

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All I can say is WOW!!! I was sure there was a lot of movement but the camera really brings out what the rear of the spring goes through With and without the bar , Mostly with the Panhard bar connected what you see is a little movement caused by the differential rising and twisting the spring. On my longer wheel base Harley truck, I felt that the Panhard bar did more for drive-ability than the sway bar I installed. I had to change mine and position it to the drivers side frame do to the exhaust clearance issue, but I kept it the same length.
When I installed the bar I was a little concerned that it may be noisy do to it not having any rubber bushings, I must say so far I have been pleasantly surprised by the quiet operation, I feel it may add a very slight amount of gear noise but that maybe my imagination!!!!

Jeffv333, I must commend you on taking the time to do these tests and prove the real bonus of using a Panhard bar with leaf springs. Sure technically there is some binding when used with leaf springs, but also that is true with long bars and leaf springs, But when you have to work with the hand that was dealt to you I do believe that both the long bars and panhard bar make huge improvements to the very old technology!!!

Thanks again for taking the time to do all the testing, It should also make cbxer55 very happy!! :grin2:
 

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Wile E. Coyote, Super Genius!
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Yup. And proves I'm not alone in my line of reasoning. Don't get me wrong, I like Keith, have his phone number, we text a little here and there. But I believe he is wrong on this one.

Those look like stock length shackles. Imagine how much worse it would be with longer lowering shackles. My shackles have four holes in them and the spring almost touches the bed.

Trying to watch the vids, but from my location, all I get is a white spinning circle in the middle of them. Will watch later when I get home.
 

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Jeffv333
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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
@chucksbp I do it for the sake of the community. I’m always glad to help and be part of something good.
@cbxer55 those are actually 2” drop shackles. I’m at the top hole to give me the 2” full drop.
 

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When I installed my bronco beater panhard bar, it made a night and day difference. At the time, my commute was 90% highway driving and of course, when the traffic permitted, was spirited driving. My truck was lowered about 4 inches in the rear and around 2.5 inches in the front. Driving on the freeway, the trucks rear felt like it was floating and I was able to feel the flexing of the shackles. It was pretty bad and even at legal speeds (65 to 70 mph) I had to slow down because I felt like I was going to lose control. After installing the panhard bar, that issue went away. I felt much more confident turning.

That being said, well worth the money and time drilling holes into the frame lol
 

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As I said my truck being a Harley truck and having the OE exhaust created a few issues to install mine, I had to make a new bracket for the top of the differential and also make an opening to bridge the Evap line on the drivers side of the frame. I would never give up the Panhard bar especially with the longer JLP shackles. Sorry for the picture size, I always seem to have issues with that!!!
 

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regular joe
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1,494 Posts
Is there a link to buy a Panhard kit?
I was making these about a decade ago. I had a group buy on them two months ago. 73 ppl interested, but only 3 paid when it came down to actually purchasing. Id still do a gb if there was enough interest.
 
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