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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I wanted to make sure PAG was compatible with the I12A I am going to be installing in the Killer Chiller and I came across some interesting info. What do you all think? Obviously my first email starts at the bottom.





Charge as a liquid into low-side (not a deep vac...no more than 5-10 inches Hg).
You want low-side pressure to level off at 40 psi with engine at idle and ac on max.
This is how I've always advised folks to do it for 13 years.

Randy

From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
To: AutoRefrigerants.com <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, August 20, 2011 11:15:51 PM
Subject: RE: Industrial-12A question

Thank you so much for getting back with me! I have never messed with A/C stuff before so this is all a new experience for me. I am installing one of these http://www.killerchiller.com/ on my Ford Lightning and he recommends using the industrial 12 for the recharge due to its colder temps. They recommend charging the high side to 2.4 times atmospheric temp while under full vacuum, this seems contradictory to our last email. Any clarification or insight you can give me would be HUGELY appreciated. Thanks, Derek Rousseau


From: AutoRefrigerants.com [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 10:00 AM
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Industrial-12A question

12a is compatible with minearl, ester and PAG oil. Ester will mix with mineral or PAG. It's like type O blood in that respect.
Invert cans to charge as a liquid into low-side. Do not charge it into a deep vacuum, this will throw it off. Charge either into positive pressure, atmospheric pressure or a slight vac of no more than 5-10 inches Hg. With engine at idle and ac on max you want the low-side pressure to level off as close to 40psi as possible.

Randy

From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Sent: Sat, August 20, 2011 12:48:32 AM
Subject: Industrial-12A question

I am planning on charging my 2004 Ford F-150 with this new industrial 12A and am inquiring to make sure I am using the right oil for the system. The OEM 134a system requires PAG 100 and I want to confirm that this is what I should use with the recharge. Thanks, Derek
 

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Just had this installed. If you read the autorefrigerants.com site, the one that Joe Kincaid directs you to, it says that the ES12a can be charged in a medium, shallow, or no vacuum at all.
 

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I charged mine in a deep vacuum 20-30 in hg vac, Once I added a can of Industrial 12a or two, i had to start up the truck because it wasn't taking any more freon. Once a vacuum is pulled,If you don't charge it under a vacuum you would have to pull in atmosphere air into the system and defeat pulling a vacuum.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I charge mine under a deep vac, once you add a can or two i have to start up the truck because it wasn't taking the freon at all. once you pull a deep vac,If you don't charge it under a vac you would have to pull out side air in to the system a defeat pull a vac.

Can you reytpe that in an understandable format?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Post 91 in the GROUP BUY thread.


**HOW TO RECHARGE THE A/C SYSTEM**
After you install the kit you will need to pull a full vacuum. If you have an air compressor you can pick up a vacuum pump at Harbor freight for 15 bucks. You can also pick up the manifold gauge set for 50 bucks. Here's what you do.

Connect the red hose to the high side port and the blue hose to the low side port (open both valves on the manifold gauge set). Connect the yellow hose to the vacuum pump, and start your air compressor. Once you've pulled down a full vacuum close both valves (red & blue).

You'll then screw on a 2 ounce can of pag oil to the yellow hose. (Open the blue valve only!) After it pulls in all of the oil, close the blue valve and screw on a can of refrigerant. (Open the blue valve only!) and let it pull in the full can of refrigerant. Once it's empty close the blue valve.

Start the engine and turn on the A/C. Screw in the second can of refrigerant and open the blue valve. let it pull in all of the refrigerant. Once the second can is empty close the blue valve. Keep adding refrigerant to you see 2.5-2.7 X ambient air temp on the high side gauge. So if it's 90 degrees out, multiply it by 2.5 = 225 psi on the high side.

You can pick up a 2 ounce can of pag oil at any automotive parts store.

Here's the info on the vacuum pump >
http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vac...ors-96677.html

Here's the info on the manifold gauge set >
http://www.harborfreight.com/a-c-man...set-92649.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Guess you can't use an old style venturi vacuum pump to do this then. I am assuming I actually need a real set of gauges that have valves so that I can pull the vacuum the shut it off and then add the fluid. I am so damn confused by all of this A/C stuff. I hate letting people work on my truck so I am really trying to understand this and do it myself.
 

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The purpose of pulling a vacuum is to get as much air out of the system as possible.
Bingo! If you've ever been to Automotive AC school you will learn that the vacumn is actually called purging the system. Best way to do this is to put the vacumn pump on and leave it on for 30 minutes. You want the vacumn to pull out all the air and creating a vacumn will also help remove moisture and other impurities from the system. I do this with the low side valve open and the high side closed. It seems that this part of the evacuation before recharge has gone by the wayside in recent years because everyone is in a hurry to get to the next job so thy just pull a quick vacumn and recharge it. I am old school but I get good cold air out of my Lightning with a KC and I live in the AZ heat.

Pull a good 28-29 inch vacumn to clean out the system before charging.

Then charge it thru the low side with the can upside down. Mine will pull in all but the last little bit of the last can before starting the engine.

To each their own but this works for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
This is from Randy at that same company

If you have a vacuum pump it should be able to register inches of Hg. No more than 5 inches or so do you want to charge into.
You can also charge it into atmospheric pressure. Ac systems have dryers to remove moisture. I would charge into 5 inches Hg.

Randy
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Yeah, I am so confused by all of this and want to do it right....

BUT

Do you follow the guy who makes the product?

Or the guy who makes the stuff that makes the product work?
 

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This is from Randy at that same company

If you have a vacuum pump it should be able to register inches of Hg. No more than 5 inches or so do you want to charge into.
You can also charge it into atmospheric pressure. Ac systems have dryers to remove moisture. I would charge into 5 inches Hg.

Randy
Randy at AutoRefrigerants? Or did you talk to a tech at Enviro-Safe (the manufacturer).

I've been going by what one of the head engineers recommended at Enviro-Safe...and just about every customer I've talk to has been very happy with the outcome, and no issues that I'm aware of.

If you'd like to charge under a moderate vacuum then by all means, it is your truck...All I can say is we literally have 2 years and hundreds of customers using Industrial 12a, with the recommended charge into a full vacuum.

I can also say I noticed a slight improvement on my Cobra when I started charging into a full vacuum, instead of a moderate vacuum...the temps are more stable in really hot weather now.

Randy used to say you should only use mineral oil with industrial 12a which turned out to be false...this was Randy at AutoRefrigerants, so I don't know if your talking about the same Randy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thank you so much for chiming in Joe. It was Randy at AutoRefrigerants.

I think I am just overanalyzing/over-researching this A/C thing. I am new to it and just want to make sure it is done right and even though I trust you and you product, the conflicting info makes me nervous.

I will charge it into a full vacuum then, I like the idea of better evacuating the system anyway.
 
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