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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Same Tuner + Dyno (Sal of PSP of course)
Same Pulleys, 9-7/8" Lower /  2.7" Upper

It was 77 Dyno Degrees out Tonight (Eaton Night)
It was 67 Dyno Degrees out Mag Night

It was 63% Humidity Tonight (Eaton Night)
It was 36% Humidity Mag Night

Eaton Results 441.9 HP / 573.2 ft lbs tq SAE
Magnum Results 442.6 HP / 573.2 ft lbs tq SAE

The VERY interesting results are this:

Eaton has more HP and TQ from idle all the way up to @ 4300 RPM

The Eaton and Mag are equal from @4300 RPM - 4700 RPM

From @4700 RPM - 5200 RPM the Mag has 25 HP more and 25 ft lbs of TQ

BUT the Eaton has as much as 20 / 20 more from 1000 RPM to @4250 RPM

Bottom line it's identical,
Pretty much an even trade off, and would prob net just about the identical ET's.
Do you want more from idle to 4300 RPM ???
Or do you want more from 4700 - 5200 ???
AND ABOUT THE SAME MORE IN BOTH CASES
(BTW, my shift points are 5000 RPM)


THANK YOU SOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH SAL,  :bows:
(it's now 1:30 am and I just got home a few ago...)
I owe you Sal, YOU DA MAN!! (HUGE Thumbs Up)

THE RESULTS


The Eaton is seeing INSTANT 17lbs, and it'll climb to @19.
Of course a SPECIAL THANKS TO WES,
Awesome Port Bro, the workmanship was outstanding, and the results are right hear in Green and Green,
SIMPLY AMAZING.......
:bows: @ WES and the Wasp Gen2 (HUGE Thumbs Up)

NOW THE GOOD NEWS ; o )
We were able to go to 20 Degrees of Timing WITH NO 30HP LOSS like the Mag

We picked up good tq, and can someday tweak a stronger race program
(we were NOT able to do that with the Mag, we actually lost 30ft lbs of tq)

We were also able to build a much stronger N20 Program, 16-18 Degrees : o )
(The Eaton loves timing, the Mag does not)

Since the Mag did not, we had to go @ 12 Degrees for the n20 program and actually lost
@ 20-30HP. Another words the n20 Program I have "now" on the Eaton is stronger,
(@20-30 HP stronger) so the results will be better ; o )

Now I will have AN EASY 550/675 on the Spray using 100HP Jets (like before)
And if I dare to get ballzy again ( I WILL) with the 150 HP jets,
I'm right where I always wanted to be, @ 600/750... WOO HOO........

But DEF to be continued
Sal and I are talkikng Cams and Springs and we will eventually put the Mag back on,
but that wont be happing tommorrow.....

THANK YOU SAL
THANKS YOU WES
THANK YOU CHARLES and be patient, the Power is up Top, with the Cams and Springs
I got to believe it will out perform the Eaton, time will tell ???


CLICK HERE to see full graph if you cant see it in the post
 

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I would think you are better off with your Eaton as it's making more power down low which you want on a heavy truck and you have less wear and tear at lower rpms compared to high revs to make power.
 

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Project Dirty Dog
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Very interesting Results Rob

Go get a KB and be done with it





















J/K :LOL get those cames and you will be set my freind
 

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you still have the MP??

If so want to sell it cheep, I need a temp blower till I get a whipple
 

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I wouldn't buy a whipple just because of the BS they are pulling. They have proved we are the lowlifes of the market. How are they going to treat us when we need repairs/parts? Stick with MP/Eaton, and add a little spray if you want to go faster.
 

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Great writeup Rob.

I've always said it and I'll say it again, other than the whine that people buy the magnum for, there is little use for it other than maybe 21lbs of boost on a built motor.

After running 11.19 in BTJ's truck at only 15lbs of ported eaton boost and the next fastest magnum truck was the fridge at 21lbs of magnum boost, I realized that the ported eaton stands toe to toe with it with no problems, especially knowing that there is alot more left in BTJ's truck and if we can make 17lbs of boost with the ported eaton, I think we will see a 10.90 or better.

Keep the testing coming Rob...

[email protected]
 

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Great writeup Rob.

if we can make 17lbs of boost with the ported eaton, I think we will see a 10.90 or better.

Keep the testing coming Rob...

[email protected]
Comeone JJ you better be able to make more than 17# of boost out a ported Eaton. I made 20# of boost out of a non ported Eaton, with a unported stock upper this past weekend in Virginia.

Hehe

Well this little pulley helps
 

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Guy's I have read this post and must say to each his own!
I have been with Magnum Powers almost since the start and have the up most faith in Charles and his products. I have attached a copy of my dyno graph with a 4lb lower and a 2.69 upper.
In one of the post on this thread some one stated that they don't know how Jim @ JDM makes this kind of power out of this blower. I can tell you this… I was there I seen the man do it with my set up and my truck stayed strapped down on his dyno for a day and a half. There were many tests done with 4lb, 6lb, 8lb, and 16 lb lower pulley.
At the time I had ported and polished heads, Bassani shorty headers, stock fuel system, and a built lower end that's it.
We were able to make 467RWHP and 566RWTRQ.
Doug the moderator form F-150 online was there that weekend and witnessed the whole thing.

Charles and I are now going to do a make or break shot with my truck.

Here is this years list of mods I normally try to hold my cards close but am laying them down for a man I call friend!

Engine – 5.4 L Cast Iron Block
· Bore - .02" over
· Rings Plasma Moley
· Cylinders honed using deck plates
· Line bored Crank bore
· Crank & rotating system balanced & blue printed
Heads – Stock heads with the following mods
· 1mm oversized valves intake & exhaust
· Cams Crower stage 3 with .601" lift
· Stage 3 springs
· Retainers titanium
· Heavily ported intake and exhaust
Intake – Stock with the following mods
· Matched ported to heads
Supercharger – Magnum Powers
· 2.69 Lb pulley
· Snout turned down to run the 2.69 lb pulley
Fuel System – Stock Fuel Rail
· 55lb hr injectors MSD
· Duel 255 fuel pumps
· ½" steel braided fuel lines
· Nitrous ported manifold
Intake air – Cold air set up
· Johnny Lightning Performance Ram Air down pipe
· JDM engineering cone filter set
· Up graded to 2001 factory MAF meter
· Excalibur MAF extender
Cooling system – Stock
· Water pump – stock
· Thermostat – stock
· Hoses – stock
· Fan – stock
· Inner cooler – stock with home made chiller box system
Transmission – Factory Tech Monster Box
· 2600 RPM stall
· Torque converter – billet
Rear end – stock
· Rebuilding not yet complete
· Up graded to carbon fiber clutch plates
Suspension – Up graded
· Shocks – QA-1 adjustable (Rear)
· Rear lowered 3"
· Front – stock shock
· Springs – stock front and back
Traction – Up graded
· Johnny Lightning Performance lift bars
Exhaust – Up graded
· Magnaflow cat back
· Magnaflow high flow cats
· Headers – Long tube - Lightning Force Performance
Computer – Stock PCM
· SCT program with 2 programs (Billet Speed Performance)
Tires – 20" American Racing Prisms (Daily Driving)
· Racing – Front 16" X 8" Good Year Eagle GT's on Eagle alloy rims
· Racing – Rear 16" X 10" Mickey Thomson ET Streets & Hosier ET Drags on Eagle Alloy rims
 

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Further, I see Rob 02's dyno graph and as you can see it looks a heck of allot different from mine! Then again Jim tuned it not Sal.
Sal, I consider you a friend and what I have posted is in no way shape or form disrespect to you or Rob. This is an attempt to help a person I call friend! Every tuner does things different many have went with this tuner and now are with that tuner for whatever reason. In my opinion not everyone can be an expert with every product.
Johnny does well with what he does, Jim does well with what he does, and Sal does well with what he does.

This year I have chosen to be tuned by a person who is not one of the big 3 but is up and coming in the SCT world. This group Billet Speed Performance is in my opinion neutral and I feel will have my best interest at heart.

What Sal & Rob have done is just phase 2 of the MP Vs. EATON saga my truck will be phase 3. My engine comes back this week and we will start installation and then go straight to break in then dyno. Once we prove this set up I am going to contact the MP customers and tell them what we did to make this set up work.

In closing I formally apologize to Charles for taking so long to bring my truck to the ring. My team hase suffered many set backs trying to be pioneers.

God Bless,

Jeronimo Gonzalez (Suavy)
 

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Great writeup Rob.

I've always said it and I'll say it again, other than the whine that people buy the magnum for, there is little use for it other than maybe 21lbs of boost on a built motor.

After running 11.19 in BTJ's truck at only 15lbs of ported eaton boost and the next fastest magnum truck was the fridge at 21lbs of magnum boost, I realized that the ported eaton stands toe to toe with it with no problems, especially knowing that there is alot more left in BTJ's truck and if we can make 17lbs of boost with the ported eaton, I think we will see a 10.90 or better.

Keep the testing coming Rob...

[email protected]
JJ, my friend I have heard you say that more than once!
I know and respect what you do, heck I'm hoping you will be at Eric's like you said when we tune!

I trust you will use the same enthusiasm to post what we achieve that day.

Peace,

Suavy
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks All :cheers:

Don I never knew you were so small
(cut off an inch, and you'd have a 2" hole) :LOL

Suavy

I see no reason for you to be so up tight about this post. I was 100% honest with Charles since this idea started. I told him I was putting an Eaton on, BEFORE I EVER POSTED I WAS,
I told him why, and although he was of course not happy, he understood I had to do what I had to do.

If your truck was eating spark plugs, took 27 Dyno's to be 15 HP more than your orig stock block set up was with a 4lb pulley, didn't respond well to the n20 BUT always did in the past, WHAT WOULD YOU DO ???

If it wasnt for Sals help, I could have bought 3 KB's for what it could have cost me trying to dial in the Mag. I have done write ups on the Mag, I have defended the Mag, I have made enemys over defending the Mag. I have interviewed Charles for E-Zine, I tried 3 diff lower pulleys, 2 diff upper pulleys, 2 diff chips, and 3 sets of spark plugs, (and yes 27 Dyno's). Now I did this and got better results IMMEDIATLEY, I'm sorry but dont hate me for trying to figure out whats wrong with my truck.

As for the Dyno graph, as we told you on F-150 you are showing a diff lay out of the graph, that layout makes it look like the #'s dont drop off, I can print mine out to look like that too.
Plus I'm using SAE #'s and you STD #'s. Plus your AF starts @ 15, and climbs back up to @14. That is 30-50 HP easy. I WILL NOT go over 12.0 on my AF (not for a street program at least, and thats what I'm showing)

Charles is also a good friend of mine too, although I'm sure he is not happy with me right now, ( Sorry Charles :sad: ) I have never, nor will ever have a bad thing to say about the Mag. Gator and others are having good luck with their's, I WAS NOT.
There is clearly Mags out there kicking ass, mine simply wasn't and maybe it is spring related. As said I hope to cam and spring it, and someday get it back on for more comparisons.

I know this is not the greatest thing for Mag business, and for that I am truly sorry Charles,
but I have gone through 8-10 K and 6 months of non racing as a result of not being able to tune my truck, NOW THAT IS BEHIND ME.

Some day we will all gain by post like this, I pray everyone understands that.....
 

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Suavy said:
JJ, my friend I have heard you say that more than once!
I know and respect what you do, heck I'm hoping you will be at Eric's like you said when we tune!

I trust you will use the same enthusiasm to post what we achieve that day.

Peace,

Suavy
Trust me my friend, I'll be there for your dyno tune session and I look forward to the results. I wish nothing but the best for your combination and I hope you achieve your goals. I'll try to bring BTJ's ported eaton for comparison if you wish and I'll do the swap.

Don,

With BTJ's 10lb lower and 2.7 upper we were seeing only 15 total lbs of boost and I believe that alot of that boost loss is because of his large cams, ported heads (nothing like the port job your used to seeing) and extrude honed lower and upper intake, that amount of volume eats up alot of boost, so we will be strapping on a "Geronimo sized" lower pulley here soon to make 17+lbs of boost..

Dont get me wrong fella's, I am in no way knocking the magnum blower, what I am doing is just pointing out that what I have seen at the track and in reports of ET's in no way makes it superior to the ported eaton, especially with the latest port jobs coming from dyno Bob.

This fall will be fun for sure... :)

[email protected]
 

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Rob, you and I are friends and I have no beef with you I am just trying to help out a friend. I respect what you and Sal have done I was an engineer for many years and have been involved in much testing.

With that said I will back off and let what ever be said. I will have my set up done real soon and then I will see for my self.

God Bless,

Suavy
 

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Suavy said:
JJ, my friend I have heard you say that more than once!
I know and respect what you do, heck I'm hoping you will be at Eric's like you said when we tune!

I trust you will use the same enthusiasm to post what we achieve that day.

Peace,

Suavy
Trust me my friend, I'll be there for your dyno tune session and I look forward to the results. I wish nothing but the best for your combination and I hope you achieve your goals. I'll try to bring BTJ's ported eaton for comparison if you wish and I'll do the swap.

Don,

With BTJ's 10lb lower and 2.7 upper we were seeing only 15 total lbs of boost and I believe that alot of that boost loss is because of his large cams, ported heads (nothing like the port job your used to seeing) and extrude honed lower and upper intake, that amount of volume eats up alot of boost, so we will be strapping on a "Geronimo sized" lower pulley here soon to make 17+lbs of boost..

Dont get me wrong fella's, I am in no way knocking the magnum blower, what I am doing is just pointing out that what I have seen at the track and in reports of ET's in no way makes it superior to the ported eaton, especially with the latest port jobs coming from dyno Bob.

This fall will be fun for sure... :)

[email protected]
JJ, I look forward to meeting you and haveing you, Eric, & John there to put you all's talents to good use. As far as testing the other blower sure if your paying for the dyno time? :LOL
Jim & Charles, paid for my 1.5 days of dyno time the last go round. Heck I have to work for a living!

I know you guy's mean well but like I stated being my friend has it's perks! If it means I go down with someone who believed in me and said here take my proto type blower and beat the crap out of it, than so be it.

"I would rather stand on my feet and fight than die on my knees!" "General Sapata"

God Bless,

Suavy
 

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Hey Rob, Racetested has said they would like to see guys have lower boost and bigger shots of nitrous. Why not try that method for a race type of setup?

Rich
 

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Rich,
It would be an interesting test to see what kind of E.T's one could pull on a Lightning with a progressively controlled big shot of nitrous compared to a lot of boost and torque off the line that causes wheel spin. I would say drop the boost to where you don't have wheel spin issues and then have a big ramp up time with 200 shot of nitrous where minimal power comes in off the line to control traction but have all that power come in after 60 ft. or so and really help you accelerate. I think this would allow people with minimal suspension mods to get better E.T.'s.
 

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Chasing the Bandit
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Don,

With BTJ's 10lb lower and 2.7 upper we were seeing only 15 total lbs of boost and I believe that alot of that boost loss is because of his large cams, ported heads (nothing like the port job your used to seeing) and extrude honed lower and upper intake, that amount of volume eats up alot of boost, so we will be strapping on a "Geronimo sized" lower pulley here soon to make 17+lbs of boost..

Dont get me wrong fella's, I am in no way knocking the magnum blower, what I am doing is just pointing out that what I have seen at the track and in reports of ET's in no way makes it superior to the ported eaton, especially with the latest port jobs coming from dyno Bob.

This fall will be fun for sure... :)

[email protected]
Amen brother. Here are my dyno results with 15 lbs boost total on pump gas with a HEATON. http://www.lightningrodder.com/forum/index.php?topic=1159.0
The Mustang Dyno numbers translate to roughly 560 RWHP. Once I can achieve more boost (thanks to the extensive porting on the TEA CNC heads, Stiegemier port job and Extrude Hone upper and lower my combo flows tremendously) , I will be running some very impressive MPH on a HEATON. I would venture to say that once a 125 shot is introduced, mid 10's are highly attainable with cool weather. I have spent $400 on my HEATON total. Not bad when compared to MP or KB. Bob does tremendous work and takes great pride in his craftsmanship. Together with WMS tuning, I am extremely pleased with my progress to date.

Best ET 11.19
Best MPH 122.19
Best 60' 1.500
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I would die for that HP off spray BTJ :smt023 :smt023

Maybe next time we meet up at Cecil, I'll put the 150 Jets in and me and you will
show um what some Heatons can really do :cheers:
 
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