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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Would the stock fuel system support e85, with a 4lb pulley and full exhaust being the only mods?

I'm talking stock pumps and injectors, Maf

I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile compared to doing the traditional 6lb or more pullies, and bolt-on's on 93, and dealing the iat2 heat vs 4lb with e85 for cooling effects and bump timing near 20° for the power.
 

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Would the stock fuel system support e85, with a 4lb pulley and full exhaust being the only mods?

I'm talking stock pumps and injectors, Maf

I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile compared to doing the traditional 6lb or more pullies, and bolt-on's on 93, and dealing the iat2 heat vs 4lb with e85 for cooling effects and bump timing near 20° for the power.
Yes but you would be at the limit and its honestly not suggested especially on a 20 year old vehicle. Your better off servicing the fuel system, upgrading the pumps, replacing the fuel filter, pump hoses/clamps etc... installing a set of 60lb injectors, an upgraded MAF (mainly because of future boost increases) and a solid tune.

If I can be of any help with any of the above hit me up and check out www.woodbinemotorsports.com

[email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Alright, thanks JJ.
I'm currently running one of your tunes (93), and I'll be getting with you soon to tweak it for the 4lb pulley i bought the other day.
This was a question I was going to ask you anyway, to see if it was possible or feasible to have an e85 tune along with a 93 on my setup.

Another question, what would you guess the power difference to be between e85 and 93 on that setup?
 

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Alright, thanks JJ.
I'm currently running one of your tunes (93), and I'll be getting with you soon to tweak it for the 4lb pulley i bought the other day.
This was a question I was going to ask you anyway, to see if it was possible or feasible to have an e85 tune along with a 93 on my setup.

Another question, what would you guess the power difference to be between e85 and 93 on that setup?
15 or so HP gain using E85 on that combination.

JJ
 

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Not worth the trouble then
I can't necessarily agree with that. E85 is very much less prone to detonation. As you mentioned, it has the other benefits. It is a great fuel for our forced induction motors.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Agree but at my power level 15hp isnt worth the trouble of me measuring at the pump for ethanol content, and on the edge of maxing out fuel system.
I was originally thinking 40-50hp gains with the added benefits of e85. Then I'd go for it.
I thought I'd pick up more than estimated 15hp, i guess these heads cant take much timing to really bring the power on.

A friend of mine has an ecoboost truck and his E50 tune, is something like +140hp over stock, 500rwhp crazy, not even on E85, needs pumps to run the 85 tune
 

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Agree but at my power level 15hp isnt worth the trouble of me measuring at the pump for ethanol content, and on the edge of maxing out fuel system.
I was originally thinking 40-50hp gains with the added benefits of e85. Then I'd go for it.
I thought I'd pick up more than estimated 15hp, i guess these heads cant take much timing to really bring the power on.

A friend of mine has an ecoboost truck and his E50 tune, is something like +140hp over stock, 500rwhp crazy, not even on E85, needs pumps to run the 85 tune
1 thing to remember, if you're running a 4lb and it's tuned for 93, another 50hp is taking you beyond the limits of your rods.

And your friends truck is a) direct injection b) seeing a big jump in boost and c) has a knock sensor.
 

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I bet a typical pulley/tune truck will pick up more than 15hp switching to e85 over 93. E85 will allow you to run MBT or dang near close to it on a mild pulley style truck. Betting torque gains would be higher as well. Aside from that there are other benefits. No switching tunes to get max HP out of the combo. You can also rely on it being much safer and resist detonation related failures compared to 93. Now you will need to test your fuel but if you have a good source then it will be fine. Only drawback to e85 is the fuel system.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 

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I bet a typical pulley/tune truck will pick up more than 15hp switching to e85 over 93. E85 will allow you to run MBT or dang near close to it on a mild pulley style truck. Betting torque gains would be higher as well. Aside from that there are other benefits. No switching tunes to get max HP out of the combo. You can also rely on it being much safer and resist detonation related failures compared to 93. Now you will need to test your fuel but if you have a good source then it will be fine. Only drawback to e85 is the fuel system.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
42's are maxed out at about 470 crank HP on e85.
 

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42's are maxed out at about 470 crank HP on e85.
I didn't mention 42's. Though if you absolutely had to you could up the base pressure with the 42's. Better to go with 60's though for a stocking truck however.

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I didn't mention 42's. Though if you absolutely had to you could up the base pressure with the 42's. Better to go with 60's though for a stocking truck however.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
He's specifically said 42's...
That's why the gains are so low.
And he said stock fuel system so no upping pressure.
 

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He's specifically said 42's...
That's why the gains are so low.
And he said stock fuel system so no upping pressure.
Guess I should have quoted JJ then.. I know he asked about the stock fuel system but JJ said only 15 HP between 93 and e85 on same combo. To me that meant regardless if he went to larger system which I was disagreeing with. I believe the gains would be more and may be worth to upgrade injectors at least.

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Guess I should have quoted JJ then.. I know he asked about the stock fuel system but JJ said only 15 HP between 93 and e85 on same combo. To me that meant regardless if he went to larger system which I was disagreeing with. I believe the gains would be more and may be worth to upgrade injectors at least.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
15hp was a conservative estimate based upon stock block setup that needs to be "calmed down" in order to survive. You could see an easy 30hp increase but that would be a max effort tune.

I've tuned many stock block E85 trucks and I always suggest running 60lb injectors just to be safe, plus the 42's are old and usually have high mileage so its a good idea to upgrade them anyway along with the pumps.

JJ
 

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15hp was a conservative estimate based upon stock block setup that needs to be "calmed down" in order to survive. You could see an easy 30hp increase but that would be a max effort tune.

I've tuned many stock block E85 trucks and I always suggest running 60lb injectors just to be safe, plus the 42's are old and usually have high mileage so its a good idea to upgrade them anyway along with the pumps.

JJ
Kinda what I was getting at. If you got the fuel system then the e85 will allow you to see good gains.

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Gains are wholly dependent on risk assumed. I would not push a stock block to where the gains would be worth the added cost of upgrading fuel system. I would rather drop 150 pounds to achieve the performance gain.


Jim
 

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Gains are wholly dependent on risk assumed. I would not push a stock block to where the gains would be worth the added cost of upgrading fuel system. I would rather drop 150 pounds to achieve the performance gain.


Jim
Stock block should be fine with an Eaton. Most people that break them with stock blowers are doing something they shouldn't be. Like WOT overdrive shifts hitting limiters etc. Also lot of people used to peg mafs in cool weather and their tuner sucked. Taking off 150lbs isn't always too easy if keeping all your creature comforts. But it's whatever you are willing to do to go fast.

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Stock block should be fine with an Eaton. Most people that break them with stock blowers are doing something they shouldn't be. Like WOT overdrive shifts hitting limiters etc. Also lot of people used to peg mafs in cool weather and their tuner sucked. Taking off 150lbs isn't always too easy if keeping all your creature comforts. But it's whatever you are willing to do to go fast.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
Do you mean the old days when raping the fuel table to try and achieve proper fueling because the tuner didnt know or was too affraid to change the MAF Xfer function and not knowing what pegging the MAF actually meant or how to fix that?

Quick story, because its about time I told this one and the old timers will get a kick out of it...

Back in the day after I blew up my stock block at the Englishtown Magazine shootout running the KB 2.3 (most likely due to a pegged MAF and less than optimum tune), I got the fresh built engine from JLP, heads, cams etc... I started to dabble into tuning myself with Jon Lund who was also learning at the time. Well Jon figured out that most likely all of the higher boosted Lightnings were pegging the MAF so we put a "MAF Extender on it", it was the first little box with dip switches that would extend the range of the MAF. Jon and I took the JLP tune off of the Diablo Predator, made the adjustments for the MAF extender and went back to Englishtown for an event that JLP was at. Our goal was to show Johnny that there was a solution other than raping the fuel tables and hoping it wont blow. Johnny knew nothing about adjusting the MAF Xfer for proper fueling back then.

So we ran the truck with the MAF extender on it and it ran great, IIRC it actually set a new record for a 2.3 KB truck at 10.60 or something like that. Jon and myself told JL what we did and were trying to help him understand and fix this issue, well he wanted nothing to do with it and was offended that we adjusted "His tune"...

Fast forward a couple of weeks and JLP is now selling and installing the MAF Extender product, however in the subsequent years that followed several of those trucks wound up in my hands and yes the MAF extenders were installed and wired in but the dip switches were set to stock, basically rendering the product useless. It was also funny for me to see that the provided "heat shrink" butt connectors that are used when you install the product werent heat shrunk, just crimped....

Let me state here really quickly, this is not an attempt to bash JLP, its just a story from a long gone era when we were all in the infancy of modifying these trucks and learning what worked and what did not work. Take it for what its worth...

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Fast forward a couple of weeks and JLP is now selling and installing the MAF Extender product, however in the subsequent years that followed several of those trucks wound up in my hands and yes the MAF extenders were installed and wired in but the dip switches were set to stock, basically rendering the product useless. It was also funny for me to see that the provided "heat shrink" butt connectors that are used when you install the product werent heat shrunk, just crimped....
Not much different than some of his stuff today... :unsure:
 
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