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I am thinking about the bassani shorty headers instead of the long tube should work ok with my JDM built motor." i have bassani cat backs what are your thoughts on bassani rhanks for your input/
BASSANI HEADERS ANY PROS OR CONS ON THEM
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from what Ive seen and heard its go LTs or go home....I personnally just got Dynatech LTs and Mids, and LOVE Them with my bassani catback.
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Thanks you are correct i think i will go with the long tubes should not interfer with my cat converters ??? right LFP has a good price on them [smilie=laugh.gif]
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I have the full bassani, love the sound. I dont have the bassani mufflers anymore tho. IMO Long tubes arent worth the money until your built like yourself. So i say go with longtubes. Bassani mufflers with longtubes is so sweet sounding.
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I still believe that the proper testing hasn't been done with shorty headers.
And believe me, I've searched and searched for proper tests.
When you put long tubes in, you aren't just putting in headers, you're also removing
the big restriction of the pre-cats and cats and often putting in a catless pipe or a high-flo cat pipe.
In order to compare apples to apples, one would have to give the shorty headers the same benefit.
It is amazing that it seems the stock exhaust manifolds can handle at least 550 rwhp without starting to show
its hindering flow.
The best article in a long time which brings this to head is from BigBobsL on nloc.
He posted:
Locally, Andre (1BADTK, myself, and other HALO club members have been investigating and documenting the effects of exhaust back pressure on power. Changes have ranged from partial removal of cats to replacement of cats and stock exhaust manifolds. One of the things we discovered is that exhaust back pressure @ WOT is controlled by the cats: Stock= 10 psi, Bassani= 5 psi, and Magnaflow= 3 psi, regardless of the headers and mufflers installed.
Some speculated that reducing back pressure might reduce low r[m torque, others felt there was not a significant improvement with exhaust changes.
Steve's MyRedToy saw ~0.3 et (12.51 to 12.21, Hoosiers and better air later gave another 0.1) improvement when going from stock to Bassani cats. Steve already had Bassani headers and catback, but stock cats.
Reducing exhaust back pressure provided NO measured torque loss for me. Dyno'd today after long tube and cat installation. This is a BEFORE and AFTER Comparison with the BEFORE being after removing the second (rear) set of stock cats and lowering back pressure from 10 psi (stock) to 7 psi. The modified cats had been worth a 0.1 et improvement. The AFTER is with JDM/Kooks header and cat installation and a back pressure of 3 psi. I used a Dynomax 2 in-2 out muffler for both tests.
RESULT: 12-15 hp increase in peak hp at ~ 5000 rpm. While that does not sound like much, at 3800 (lowest measured rpm) torque was up 50-60 lb-ft and hp 40-50! This level of gain slowly tapered to the 12 -15 at 5000 rpm and stayed at that level or greater until 5700+. A lot of new area under the curve and very noticible at seat-of-pants. The same level of gain was seen with two different chip programs and and one program was run twice in both BEFORE and AFTER configurations to verify consistency of the numbers. Gains were likely higher at still lower rpm and more so had I started with a full set of stock cats.
We just completed a driveway install of Hedman short tubes and Bassani cats in front of Silver Bullet cat-back on Andre's truck and saw a big increase in sound and will do his AFTER dyno soon. Analysis of those tests will allow us to compare characteristics (magnitude and distribution of gains) of long vs short tubes. I am sure he will add his results to this string at that time.
Did I mention the incredible sound? We also discovered that the cats do more to determine sound level at idle and WOT that mufflers of headers, while the headers add a distinct cadence and pitch/growl.
End result: Very glad I made did the install. I had heard complaints of too little power gain before and that would be the case if you looked only at peak numbers, but the improvements at less than 5000 rpm is huge! Guess where our engines are at most of the time? New peak numbers: 430 SAE (corrected) hp and 527 lb-ft. More to come as soon as new cams arrive.
Will post graph overlays and track improvements later; racing this Sunday and planning/hoping for first eleven second run. Last run before headers was a 12.09 @ 111 mph. @ 4700# & 60F
Thanks again to Keith and Chris for help with my driveway install.
and followed up with:
The short answer is much of the performance improvement is in the cats or otherwise stated if adding headers, be sure to do the cats so you can see maximum gains. MyRedToy gained 0.3 sec when adding Bassani cats as last segment of a full bassani set-up. I think the long tube headers were responsible for a lot of the low end gain, but can not say until we see how the shorties perform. We have done some high flow cats on stock exhaust manifolds, but have no BEFORE and AFTTER dynos and they have not made it back to track yet. My 12.09 was with stock exhaust manifolds and pre-cats only. Had run 12.21 with both sets of factory cats. Best bet is to buy a fully built set of cat pipes with are $400-$500, if staying with factory manifolds or shorty headers. Long-tubes of course require different cat set up.
I have had three mufflers and found no performance advantage in any of them, only different and louder sound. I would like to try a stock cat-back with long tubes and high flow cats; save money and the quiter exhaust might keep me out of troble and be a bit more stealthy. I am sure it would also be much louder than stock, but still quiter than aftermarket mufflers.
As you know there are numerous sources for the mandrel bent Bassani or Magnaflow systems, both systems perform well. Any savings from buying the cats alone is lost in paying a muffler shop and the shop not having a mandrel bender.
And believe me, I've searched and searched for proper tests.
When you put long tubes in, you aren't just putting in headers, you're also removing
the big restriction of the pre-cats and cats and often putting in a catless pipe or a high-flo cat pipe.
In order to compare apples to apples, one would have to give the shorty headers the same benefit.
It is amazing that it seems the stock exhaust manifolds can handle at least 550 rwhp without starting to show
its hindering flow.
The best article in a long time which brings this to head is from BigBobsL on nloc.
He posted:
Locally, Andre (1BADTK, myself, and other HALO club members have been investigating and documenting the effects of exhaust back pressure on power. Changes have ranged from partial removal of cats to replacement of cats and stock exhaust manifolds. One of the things we discovered is that exhaust back pressure @ WOT is controlled by the cats: Stock= 10 psi, Bassani= 5 psi, and Magnaflow= 3 psi, regardless of the headers and mufflers installed.
Some speculated that reducing back pressure might reduce low r[m torque, others felt there was not a significant improvement with exhaust changes.
Steve's MyRedToy saw ~0.3 et (12.51 to 12.21, Hoosiers and better air later gave another 0.1) improvement when going from stock to Bassani cats. Steve already had Bassani headers and catback, but stock cats.
Reducing exhaust back pressure provided NO measured torque loss for me. Dyno'd today after long tube and cat installation. This is a BEFORE and AFTER Comparison with the BEFORE being after removing the second (rear) set of stock cats and lowering back pressure from 10 psi (stock) to 7 psi. The modified cats had been worth a 0.1 et improvement. The AFTER is with JDM/Kooks header and cat installation and a back pressure of 3 psi. I used a Dynomax 2 in-2 out muffler for both tests.
RESULT: 12-15 hp increase in peak hp at ~ 5000 rpm. While that does not sound like much, at 3800 (lowest measured rpm) torque was up 50-60 lb-ft and hp 40-50! This level of gain slowly tapered to the 12 -15 at 5000 rpm and stayed at that level or greater until 5700+. A lot of new area under the curve and very noticible at seat-of-pants. The same level of gain was seen with two different chip programs and and one program was run twice in both BEFORE and AFTER configurations to verify consistency of the numbers. Gains were likely higher at still lower rpm and more so had I started with a full set of stock cats.
We just completed a driveway install of Hedman short tubes and Bassani cats in front of Silver Bullet cat-back on Andre's truck and saw a big increase in sound and will do his AFTER dyno soon. Analysis of those tests will allow us to compare characteristics (magnitude and distribution of gains) of long vs short tubes. I am sure he will add his results to this string at that time.
Did I mention the incredible sound? We also discovered that the cats do more to determine sound level at idle and WOT that mufflers of headers, while the headers add a distinct cadence and pitch/growl.
End result: Very glad I made did the install. I had heard complaints of too little power gain before and that would be the case if you looked only at peak numbers, but the improvements at less than 5000 rpm is huge! Guess where our engines are at most of the time? New peak numbers: 430 SAE (corrected) hp and 527 lb-ft. More to come as soon as new cams arrive.
Will post graph overlays and track improvements later; racing this Sunday and planning/hoping for first eleven second run. Last run before headers was a 12.09 @ 111 mph. @ 4700# & 60F
Thanks again to Keith and Chris for help with my driveway install.
and followed up with:
The short answer is much of the performance improvement is in the cats or otherwise stated if adding headers, be sure to do the cats so you can see maximum gains. MyRedToy gained 0.3 sec when adding Bassani cats as last segment of a full bassani set-up. I think the long tube headers were responsible for a lot of the low end gain, but can not say until we see how the shorties perform. We have done some high flow cats on stock exhaust manifolds, but have no BEFORE and AFTTER dynos and they have not made it back to track yet. My 12.09 was with stock exhaust manifolds and pre-cats only. Had run 12.21 with both sets of factory cats. Best bet is to buy a fully built set of cat pipes with are $400-$500, if staying with factory manifolds or shorty headers. Long-tubes of course require different cat set up.
I have had three mufflers and found no performance advantage in any of them, only different and louder sound. I would like to try a stock cat-back with long tubes and high flow cats; save money and the quiter exhaust might keep me out of troble and be a bit more stealthy. I am sure it would also be much louder than stock, but still quiter than aftermarket mufflers.
As you know there are numerous sources for the mandrel bent Bassani or Magnaflow systems, both systems perform well. Any savings from buying the cats alone is lost in paying a muffler shop and the shop not having a mandrel bender.
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Mike what are you doing on this site, I thought you hated this site j/k welcome I am goinig for Lt's soon no built motor yet but that one tery just posted up may have to win the lottery this week [smilie=fingersx.gif] and go pick it up.Poorsvtman said:
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1,151 Posts
Thanks for all the input on long tubes headers i like this forum [lightningrodders.com] a lot of good information on this site because i value all the information i recieve you can find what works and what doesn't on our lightnings.. NOW i will just wait till some good deals come along on long tube headers thanks
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POIWERED AND TUNE BY JDM :LOL
LIGHTNING FAST
POIWERED AND TUNE BY JDM :LOL
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I got my Dynatech LTs and catted mid pipes for 1150shipped.....most places want $1295....
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I talked to [email protected] yesterday and he made me a offer I can't turn down for his LongTubes and midpipes. All you need to do is call him up tell him what you are wanting and he usually make's you a good deal on it.
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I would not worry to much about it. I run the bassani catted mid pipes with stock headers. I run a magnaflow catback instead and the sound is great, and I don't think I lost any tq. at all.
Edit, I had a 2# lower,2.8 upper,cai and the exhaust and put down 361hp and 442 tq..
I am worried about the TQ loss and i want to see some gain. I am making 395hp 505tq with a 6#lower KN intake, CL plenum, Bassani Catback and tune. I think thats all my power mods. I have FTVB, Driveshaft loop, lakewood t-bars, slicks, linelock, JLP power cooler, metco idler bracket.
I have bassani midpipe, magnaflow catback, 6# pulley, dual e-fans, PI stall, LFP VB, c&l true flow, c&l intake plenum, and sbtb and put down 406hp 551tq I didn't see any tq loss
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I have the full shorty system,catless now. With the cats I ran a [email protected] on stock pulleys. It made 376/442 on a Dynojet, with the cats removed, a cai, 90mm maf and a chip. I think any loss would be very small if any.
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I Have not ran the 1/4 since removing them, but 1/8th times are still the same. Mustang dyno numbers from before removing was 354/442, so going by the conversion to DynoJet numbers it would be a torque loss, but I don't put a lot of stock in dyno numbers. Sound is all I noticed.
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