[Jamie R]

Well I rarely post on here but always read and try to learn. I was a stock bolt on guy that enjoyed my truck a lot until going built in 19. I used Tfs heads as I thought or hoped the head issues had been resolved by 2019 but the issues are still present. My engine is out again, and the tfs heads are off to get everything replaced on the heads to have no more tfs hardware on the heads. The issue with my Tfs heads is the same issue that seems to get everyone else, the guides are crap and mine are worn out as in leaving valves loose to move side to side slightly and this engine has not even 5k miles on it, if 5k then I know not 8k. I have other rides to drive and with issues popping up and cranking issues I haven’t driven the truck much. If I was smart I’d throw my stock engine back in but I’ll admit I’m not that smart. If my issue would’ve been short block then yeah I’d have thrown my stock engine back in without question. If your thinking of going built and using Tfs heads then at the least change those powder metal guides out to lessen the failure chance.

Jamie R.
03 Dsg Gen2

 

[Painless Autoworks]

That's exactly what I did. Bronze guides and custom spec Ferrea valves from the get-go. I bought my heads bare and built them up.

I've seen TFS valve issues over the years too.

Hopefully, you get many trouble-free miles after the machine shop straightens them out.

 

[Jamie R]

Thanks man! I’m hoping I can see a glimmer of the fun I used to have with that truck but it’ll take a while as I’m a bit gunshy of it at this point. I’d have gotten ported pi’s if a set would’ve been readily available but none were so we are replacing everything in these tfs heads now. I purchased my tfs heads complete and off the shelf from summit back in 2019.

Jamie R
03 Dsg Gen2

 

[junioRace]

Jaime, yours is now the 3rd guy I have heard from in the last two weeks that have had issues with TFS hardware.

 

[NMSVT]

Are there any problems with the actual valves from Trick Flow? I’m getting my heads re-done from my last engine and they are replacing them with Trick flow valves… all other hardware was replaced and done right by Fox Lake racing in the past.

 

[Dusten]

Jaime, yours is now the 3rd guy I have heard from in the last two weeks that have had issues with TFS hardware.

But I was told that isn't a thing....

 

[Jamie R]

Jeff man I hate it for others cause I don’t ever want to see anyone have problems as I know all to well how it is.

Nmstv, I’m not sure about the valves, I know the guides are trash. I think Dustin was able to salvage his valves but one of mine is kinda tuliped so I’m pulling everything off and going back with NO tfs hardware.

Dustin, man idk how many texts back and forth we’ve had about those dang tfs heads. If anyone owns a set out of the box like I did then they’ll have to go back and relick those heads and I don’t care what cam is in the heads as the guides are the failure point.

Jamie R.
Dsg Gen2

 

[fleeman2]

Does anyone know where these heads can still be bought and be in stock? I’m seeing crazy lead times for them and it’s frustrating that this is how it is now.

 

[junioRace]

Does anyone know where these heads can still be bought and be in stock? I’m seeing crazy lead times for them and it’s frustrating that this is how it is now.

Currently mid-June. There might very well be some guys selling their used heads. I would consider that as a viable option. But then if you are looking to upgrade valves (or other parts), that might be a wait. I run Inconel exhaust in mine and those are out of stock.

 

[Dusten]

Jeff man I hate it for others cause I don’t ever want to see anyone have problems as I know all to well how it is.

Nmstv, I’m not sure about the valves, I know the guides are trash. I think Dustin was able to salvage his valves but one of mine is kinda tuliped so I’m pulling everything off and going back with NO tfs hardware.

Dustin, man idk how many texts back and forth we’ve had about those dang tfs heads. If anyone owns a set out of the box like I did then they’ll have to go back and relick those heads and I don’t care what cam is in the heads as the guides are the failure point.

Jamie R.
Dsg Gen2

The head shop i used had no issues with the valves. On a build like painless is running upgraded valves are needed due to heat and pressure.

I've seen 1 or 2 sets where the head came off the valve. But both had less than break in miles on them.

 

[BlowerWhore]

I’m not talking sh!t but hold up so out of the box TF heads is or isn’t a good thing to do. Gamble with thousands or have one shop that never had a failure put it together before hand

 

[rkupon1]

Anybody who is assembling any engine who recieves a complete set of heads should ALWAYS be taking them apart to inspect and verifying what you have along with checking the specs. This is where the difference between a parts assembler and engine builder come into play. Not saying this method would find all defects before hand, but it sure could. Its good habit. Id never want my engine builder relying on spring pressures a pc of paper says they are, etc. If head components are failing during break in miles, it could be something that was wrong from jump! Heck, my last set of heads, we even flowed them to see how close the advertised numbers were. Before and after porting.
"If something is breaking in, its also wearing out!"

 

[[email protected]]

So these heads have been taken apart already and the failure point verified or are you just assuming the valve guides caused the issue with the valve tulip'ing? Any pictures of said failed parts or heads torn apart?

Thank you,

[email protected]

 

[Jamie R]

Yes the heads have been taken apart and hopefully this week they’ll be back together. The guy taking the heads apart couldn’t believe the guides were powder metal and yes the valve was loose in the guide, the tuliping as it looks like, appears to have been caused by the valve being loose in the guide. One was worse than the others but the others weren’t far from the same scenario happening that happened on the worst one. I understand you’ve not had or seen any failures of the tfs heads and I had hoped any issues with the heads had been addressed being I purchased mine in 2019 but in my experience the heads have issues and I’m out money again with this truck that I haven’t rarely driven since 19. For me if I could’ve gotten my hands on ready to bolt on ported Pi’s I would’ve when the head issue was discovered and it was determined the engine had to come out yet again but I couldn’t locate a set of ported Pi’s. I can say after this I’d never recommend tfs heads to a lightning owner unless the guides were at least changed.

Jamie R
03 Dsg Gen2

 

[[email protected]]

Yes the heads have been taken apart and hopefully this week they’ll be back together. The guy taking the heads apart couldn’t believe the guides were powder metal and yes the valve was loose in the guide, the tuliping as it looks like, appears to have been caused by the valve being loose in the guide. One was worse than the others but the others weren’t far from the same scenario happening that happened on the worst one. I understand you’ve not had or seen any failures of the tfs heads and I had hoped any issues with the heads had been addressed being I purchased mine in 2019 but in my experience the heads have issues and I’m out money again with this truck that I haven’t rarely driven since 19. For me if I could’ve gotten my hands on ready to bolt on ported Pi’s I would’ve when the head issue was discovered and it was determined the engine had to come out yet again but I couldn’t locate a set of ported Pi’s. I can say after this I’d never recommend tfs heads to a lightning owner unless the guides were at least changed.

Jamie R
03 Dsg Gen2

Ok so no pictures then?

I am only asking and curious because I rarely ever get to see pictures of the failure and failure analysis. Its always after the cylinder head guy has taken them apart and given an estimate/opinion on what failed.

Also as I previously mentioned a tulip'd valve normally occurs from excessive cylinder temps. "A tuliped valve is when the valve is over heated and the valve spring changes the length of the valve.It makes it longer not mushroomed."

I have never heard of a valve tulip'ing from a worn or bad valve guide, if that were the case then high mileage 4.6 and 5.4's would tulip valves all day long and thats just not happening.

Again, I'm not saying you have not had a failure and I'm not saying that its not the fault of the cylinder head or its components, I'm just trying to connect the dots and get more information, pictures etc... because its always easiest to blame the part when in fact there could be other things at work here that contributed to the failure.

[email protected]

 

[Dusten]

Most people don't take pictures of a cylinder head before it goes to the shop. He sent me video of the shop whining light through the valves.

Here I uploaded it.

Here's my head failure if you want pictures of a tf head that failed.

13k miles on it when it failed.

 

[Jamie R]

My goal wasn’t trying to take pics and vids, was getting to the issue and the issue was the guides which got the valve. Modular Head Shop even states in the description of tfs head valves that the lighter weight valve being concave on the end leads to getting tuliped and I’m quite sure those guys have seen a lot of tfs heads. From what I was being told, the valve looked tuliped, which the theory is from the guide being worn out and the other guides weren’t far from being worse. I was actually happy for a few moments and then got the miss, turned out the miss was valve hanging slightly open, piston was fine, I even had the injectors checked and they were fine so I covered my bases as I was absolutely not going to reinstall that engine until we knew definitively what was wrong. I can say without question if my short block would’ve been bad my stock engine would’ve went back in. I actually haven’t even been back around those heads so I’ve personally not taken any pics and even if I was there I probably wouldn’t, the guy the pulled the engine sent me the vid which I sent to Dustin being Dustin has also had tfs head issues.

Jamie R.
03 Dsg Gen2

 

[[email protected]]

No worries at all, I appreciate as much information as anyone can provide to me when something fails.

Trust me, I understand there have been issues and failures, I just personally havent had any here and have installed more sets of these heads than anyone else on this vehicles platform.

No doubt light shining thru a valve means there is an issue, but make sure they measure the valve and let you know if it is truly bent or tulip'd because if its tulip'd you have another issue that needs to be addressed that has nothing to do with the head.

Either way sorry for your issues and thank you for your input. I would suggest maybe giving Summit/Trickflow a call and see if there is anything they can do. They are a big company and are pretty good with customer service.

[email protected]

 

[Jamie R]

I really don’t see anything else it could be other than the hardware in the head as everything else around the head has been looked over and checked. There is nothing summit would do nor would I expect them to being I purchased in 2019, this is another learning experience in life that happens. I know you haven’t had any head failures but there has been others that has and now I can add myself to that statistic. Surprisingly I hear the new guides/valves will be here this week so I might actually have the engine back together this week.

Jamie R.
03 Dsg Gen2

 

[[email protected]]

I really don’t see anything else it could be other than the hardware in the head as everything else around the head has been looked over and checked. There is nothing summit would do nor would I expect them to being I purchased in 2019, this is another learning experience in life that happens. I know you haven’t had any head failures but there has been others that has and now I can add myself to that statistic. Surprisingly I hear the new guides/valves will be here this week so I might actually have the engine back together this week.

Jamie R.
03 Dsg Gen2

Since the design of the head and the spark plug placement in the head makes it much harder to hurt a spark plug you can have a lean condition on that cylinder or cylinders that was hot enough to tulip the valve but not hot enough to hurt a spark plug, it all depends on the combination of timing and air fuel. Heat is what tulips a valve, the valve literally gets so hot that hte valve spring pulls on the stem while the valve is closed and stretches the valve.

If you only have a single wideband on the drivers side and this happened to the passenger side head this would make sense, you could be leaner on that bank.

My point is that there are reasons for mechanical failures other than the cylinder head or its components and I would hate for this to happen again to you so please find out if that valve was truly tulip'd or not because it if was you need to make certain that wont happen again.

Good luck and thanks again for the continued information.

JJ