[Dusten]

I'm not blaming the end user for all Trickflow failures. I even stated that Trickflow has had some failures due to the product itself. I'm simply stating that the ones that I have seen in person were due to improper installation and I'm also posting that incorrect installation of the cams and followers is a very common practice used not only by DIY's but I've even known other shops that do it to save time.

I also forgot one other reason why there are some failures, too big of a PI cam being used.

[email protected]

Speaking of to big of a cam, what is the failure?

 

[[email protected]]

Speaking of to big of a cam, what is the failure?

Valve spring bind, kicking a rocker off, knocking the keepers out, dropping a valve, knocking the tip off of the valve, broken valve spring, Basically anything that can happen when the valve spring gets bound up from too much lift.

I have pictures somewhere that show how close a .580 lift cam is to binding the valve spring in the head. I used an adjustable lifter to take measurements to see if the cams the truck already had would work. (this truck is actually now my shop truck) and it was close and as far as I would ever go on a TF head. Problem is you cant machine down the valve spring seat for more lift/spring height because there is no room to do so.

I'll have to find those pictures. Does this places gallery still work? They might be in there.

JJ

 

[Dusten]

Valve spring bind, kicking a rocker off, knocking the keepers out, dropping a valve, knocking the tip off of the valve, broken valve spring, Basically anything that can happen when the valve spring gets bound up from too much lift.

I have pictures somewhere that show how close a .580 lift cam is to binding the valve spring in the head. I used an adjustable lifter to take measurements to see if the cams the truck already had would work. (this truck is actually now my shop truck) and it was close and as far as I would ever go on a TF head. Problem is you cant machine down the valve spring seat for more lift/spring height because there is no room to do so.

I'll have to find those pictures. Does this places gallery still work? They might be in there.

JJ

Hey @fordmon

 

[fordmon]

Thank you for talking about this, it doesn't help that the valve stem is 7mm. I was sent a video I'm sure you've seen it. it slow motion HIGH revs rocker, spring, valve stem flapping in the breeze. Ultimatly the spring broke first .
I do not know what my build will be capable of spinning to but I dont plan to go to the limit.
Once again Holbrook is a very capabale engine builder so i'm moving forward.
One of you guys say something like "just send it"

 

[Certified Drunk]

When in doubt, just send it.

 

[fordmon]

Oh my bad!!!

 

[BlowerWhore]

Here is what I dont understand. You are willing to hate on Trickflow because of your bad experience but I dont think you have ever once mentioned who your failed built motor was purchased from. Why not? I mean if you are making statements about your experience with TF why not make the same statement and mention the built motor supplier?

It reminds me of another person I dealt with about two years ago that contacted me about a spun rod bearing in his new build that was done by another shop. I spent alot of time on the phone trying to help diagnose the issue and help him figure out a solution and when he told me the story I was amazed he wouldnt say anything about it publicly, especially since he swung so hard for this company on Facebook and here. After spending about 35K with them they told him to pound sand. The mentality of this has always amazed me... Anyway..

Trickflow failures.... Lets discuss... Actually let me toss out my unpopular to those who have had failures opinion...

I will preface this by saying yes, Trickflow has had some failures that were a direct result of product failure. However the three failures I have seen in person were all due to improper installation procedures for the camshaft.

You see most people do not have the tool that compresses the valve spring to install the follower after the cam has been installed, so they install the followers, find a roughly "neutral" cam position and lay the cam in place, then tighten down the cam caps, hopefully torquing them to spec and that is the absolute worst way to install a cam in a cylinder head. The proper way is to have the lifters in place, install the cam with no followers in place, torque the cam caps and make sure the cams spins freely in the head before you use the tool to compress the valve (with the piston down) to install the intake and exhaust followers. (cam lube everywhere of course) Doing it the wrong way does not ensure proper cam cap torque and can "bind" the valve train which will result in kicked off followers, valve/piston damage etc... All easily blamed on Trickflow of course.

Most likely the above paragraph should explain why I have had Zero failures of any Trickflow head in house.

[email protected]

It’s not that I hate trick flow. I just think they should be built with better parts from the get go. I’m sure I would’ve possibly made more power (with built TF heads on my current build). But I’m pretty happy with my ported and built PI heads with the power the truck made efficiently. Once again you are one lucky guy to have zero TF failures in house

 

[BlowerWhore]

Here is what I dont understand. You are willing to hate on Trickflow because of your bad experience but I dont think you have ever once mentioned who your failed built motor was purchased from. Why not? I mean if you are making statements about your experience with TF why not make the same statement and mention the built motor supplier?

It reminds me of another person I dealt with about two years ago that contacted me about a spun rod bearing in his new build that was done by another shop. I spent alot of time on the phone trying to help diagnose the issue and help him figure out a solution and when he told me the story I was amazed he wouldnt say anything about it publicly, especially since he swung so hard for this company on Facebook and here. After spending about 35K with them they told him to pound sand. The mentality of this has always amazed me... Anyway..

Trickflow failures.... Lets discuss... Actually let me toss out my unpopular to those who have had failures opinion...

I will preface this by saying yes, Trickflow has had some failures that were a direct result of product failure. However the three failures I have seen in person were all due to improper installation procedures for the camshaft.

You see most people do not have the tool that compresses the valve spring to install the follower after the cam has been installed, so they install the followers, find a roughly "neutral" cam position and lay the cam in place, then tighten down the cam caps, hopefully torquing them to spec and that is the absolute worst way to install a cam in a cylinder head. The proper way is to have the lifters in place, install the cam with no followers in place, torque the cam caps and make sure the cams spins freely in the head before you use the tool to compress the valve (with the piston down) to install the intake and exhaust followers. (cam lube everywhere of course) Doing it the wrong way does not ensure proper cam cap torque and can "bind" the valve train which will result in kicked off followers, valve/piston damage etc... All easily blamed on Trickflow of course.

Most likely the above paragraph should explain why I have had Zero failures of any Trickflow head in house.

[email protected]

If I mention the person who built the first short block …that’s slander. He likes to threat to sue

 

[Painless Autoworks]

If I mention the person who built the first short block …that’s slander. He likes to threat to sue

It isn't libel if it's truth. You can be successfully sued only if the other party can prove you were not truthful with your statement.

 

[fordmon]

LOL, I didnt know I had to consult my attorney over the valve train geometry. I'm not A lawyer but my attorney is!!!

 

[[email protected]]

If I mention the person who built the first short block …that’s slander. He likes to threat to sue

You said it... "he likes to threaten to sue people"... Those that threaten wont sue, they already know they are in the wrong. The ones that are confident in their products and services are the ones that actually sue.

I mean seriously, do you honestly think you would be sued for telling the truth?

JJ

 

[Dusten]

Saw another tf heads failure.

Bad valve guides. Allowed the valve to slow around and tulip. Caused a misfire.

I will never ever recommend these heads unless you're buying a bare casting and adding your own hardware.

 

[fordmon]

well that's unfortunate for the price of these heads they fail. I've already determined that I will not be tuning this build to the edge due to the head issue. I was advised well before starting the build that TF heads may have issues but this is my first MOD build, I wont make that mistake next time.
So back to EGR, I was installing my ARH headers, put the drivers side and factory heat shield on no issue. Passenger side, had to trim heat shield reroute and wrap cables and starter, no issues.
Went to put JIC #12 block off cap on EGR stand off tube, it wont thread on. I put thread gauge on it, it's not a 1 1/16 -12 it turns out to be a M26-2.0. so off came the header and back to ARH for a repair.
I want to maintain the factory stuff just incase someone has to reinstall the EGR to get it plated. I'm not upset all this high dollar stuff kinda fits/works ?!?! This is the theme no matter whos parts you use.
There was a thread asking why we "hack" theses cars up. Well because we can. no worries

 

[Dusten]

Tf heads don't fail because they're turned up.

Jamies truck is a low boost street truck.

When mine failed I made 540hp.

 

[juan1]

Most of the failures on trickflow heads are on the lightnings for some odd reason, even after speaking with Jordan from MHS he says on costumers that plan to make less than 800hp he uses the trickflow hardware no issues.

 

[[email protected]]

Saw another tf heads failure.

Bad valve guides. Allowed the valve to slow around and tulip. Caused a misfire.

I will never ever recommend these heads unless you're buying a bare casting and adding your own hardware.

All valve guides? All valves or just one? If just one which one? Intake or exhaust?

Prolonged periods of running on the edge of detonation with high cylinder temps are the usual cause of a tulip'd valve and those temps can also cause valve guide failures.

More info would be appreciated on this failure.

JJ

 

[Dusten]

All valve guides? All valves or just one? If just one which one? Intake or exhaust?

Prolonged periods of running on the edge of detonation with high cylinder temps are the usual cause of a tulip'd valve and those temps can also cause valve guide failures.

More info would be appreciated on this failure.

JJ

Multiple guides.

One valve.

Mild build

Kevin Mac tuned.

Your cams.

 

[rkupon1]

Trickflow makes a damn good head. If my Lightning doesnt sell, id consider a new build using the TF 44cc 185's again, no doubt. I d defly not be using powderd metal anything or "their" valves most likely...simply bcuz, theres "better" out there. Let TF build the head, thats their thing. Other companies make valves, etc. At these kinda hp levels, part selection has to make sense. But thats just my $.02. Like anything else, all failures are cause and effect. I ve learned alot looking back 12+ yrs ago when I built my last Lightning. Is the TF 185(44cc or 38cc iirc)still really the only aftermarket head available these days? Theres gotta be tons of builds using em if so...in my day, just their VCs sucked.....oil....lol.

 

[Dusten]

Trickflow makes a damn good head. If my Lightning doesnt sell, id consider a new build using the TF 44cc 185's again, no doubt. I d defly not be using powderd metal anything or "their" valves most likely...simply bcuz, theres "better" out there. Let TF build the head, thats their thing. Other companies make valves, etc. At these kinda hp levels, part selection has to make sense. But thats just my $.02. Like anything else, all failures are cause and effect. I ve learned alot looking back 12+ yrs ago when I built my last Lightning. Is the TF 185(44cc or 38cc iirc)still really the only aftermarket head available these days? Theres gotta be tons of builds using em if so...in my day, just their VCs sucked.....oil....lol.

No. There is still no other head. Ported pi or tf. That's it.

 

[rkupon1]

What are these guys getting for a TF headed built long block these days?