[TennTechMan]

I've been planning to swap a 6-speed into my Lightning LONG before I ever even had the cash to buy my Lightning. Ever since the 1st gen L, I've thought Ford should at least offer a manual trans option.


Today...I took the first step towards actually making this happen. More on that below.


Transmission

I plan to buy a Tremec Magnum from www.americanpowertrain.com.

http://americanpowertrain.com/i-852...peed-for-ford-26-spline-input-wide-ratio.html

The Magnum is rated to handle 700 lb-ft of torque. It already has a 26 spline shaft. The Wide Ratio option has the gearing that I'm looking for. From what they tell me, the speedo will be more straight forward than the Viper T-56. There are 3 different shifter offset locations, so I'm hoping one of those is convenient for putting the shift knob where I want it.


Misc Parts

I also intend to buy clutch, flywheel, and anything else that I buy new (non-OEM) from American Powertrain. They're relatively local to me, and they seem to have everything that I could possibly need.

I'm planning to keep my build "bolt-on" as much as possible. I have the ability to machine and fabricate where I will inevitably need it. But, I also have lots of experience sourcing purchasable parts for applications they weren't necessarily intended. I hope to use that combination of abilities to keep it the install nearly bolt-in, but make the custom pieces very simple where needed.


Time Goals

Over the next few months I'll be getting parts together. I'll probably pull the trigger on the trans in the next week or two. Due to some other commitments (Lemons car build and M122 project), I won't have time to do anything with the trans until this spring anyways. As of now, I plan to drop the transmission out of the truck sometime in April. If I can get confident enough with my bolt-on plan, I hope to have all of this complete within about a month of dropping the auto out.

 

[TennTechMan]

Day 1

I found a '99 5-speed F-150 at a junk yard over the weekend. I pulled the full steering column (with plastic trim pieces) and the brake/clutch pedal assembly. I was so excited about it, that I was working in the rain. I grabbed the parts that I thought were most important to get me pointed in the right direction.

I don't think I'll need the whole column, but I wanted to make sure I had whatever I need to use the lock cylinder release.

 

[1qwktrk]

Day 1

I found a '99 5-speed F-150 at a junk yard over the weekend. I pulled the full steering column (with plastic trim pieces) and the brake/clutch pedal assembly. I was so excited about it, that I was working in the rain. I grabbed the parts that I thought were most important to get me pointed in the right direction.

I don't think I'll need the whole column, but I wanted to make sure I had whatever I need to use the lock cylinder release.

You will not need the whole column. Only the covers and key release lever. And yes you are off to a good start.

 

[relykz]

Bringing this thread back from its slumber... hows the swap going TennTechMan?

 

[TennTechMan]

Unfortunately, I've not made much progress. I'm still just as determined to do it, but I've had a lot of distractions. The Lemons car is built, and has competed in it's first race, but it's still got a bit of work we want to do before the next race. I also decided to buy a Class A motorhome (Ford-powered, of course), so I've been chasing a bunch of maintenance and other little items with it.

I did find a clutch master cylinder, and another set of pedals in a recent trip to the junk yard.

Anyone used a stock (99 V6 F-150) clutch master cylinder to actuate the clutch? I intend to try it.

 

[1qwktrk]

I did find a clutch master cylinder, and another set of pedals in a recent trip to the junk yard.

Anyone used a stock (99 V6 F-150) clutch master cylinder to actuate the clutch? I intend to try it.

Scottselle tried without much success, either the overall depth of the trans is more or using the viper slave required more fluid. the famed bennett coachworks showed in their photos a machined spacerthey used under the slave. in theroy using the viper slave with the spacer and stock master might work. that would save you some considerable time and effort. appearantly there are other vehicles and swaps that run into similar issues and clutch slave spacers are now available off the shelf from several vendors in various heights. to my knowledge the factory f150 master line will plug into the quick connect viper slave.

 

[TennTechMan]

I know it's been a while, but I'm still "working" on the swap. A recent visit to my friends at American Powertrain got me a little more motivated again. The last year my free time has been consumed mostly by my 24 Hours of LeMons car.

Today, I picked up a center console that I plan to prep for a shift boot. I'm planning to order my transmission sometime before the end of the year. I'm still looking at a new T-56 Magnum.

I'm really leaning towards a dual disc clutch. I've never driven one though. I've driven vehicles with single discs that could handle Lightning power and weight, and they're just so stiff with a very short transition. I'd like my wife to still be able to drive my truck, and that's not going to happen with a single disc. Are the duals really much more drivable? Am I making any compromises by going with the dual disc setup? Anyone got direct experience with both in relatively high hp vehicles?

 

[svt-BansheeMan]

Id recommend a level 5 tr6060 from tick performance. Much stronger than the magnum. Thats what im doing. I blew up my viper spec.

Also dont get the viper over drives with a 3.73 rear end. 6th is too high.

I drove a dual disc but its been so long I forgot.

Make sure your trans accepts viper hydraulics and slave unless you want to figure that stuff out on your own.

 

[TennTechMan]

The Tick Performance transmission looks pretty beefy. 900RWTq is pretty insane. The stock TR-6060 (same as T-56 Magnum) is rated to 700 RWTq. I don't really plan to ever surpass that. Do you know what the Viper T-56 is rated to? I know the "typical" T-56 is rated to 450RWTq. Not sure if the Viper is any different or not. It's kind of annoying that Tremec chose to market the TR-6060 as the T-56 Magnum to the aftermarket world. It's actually a ground up redesign from the original T-56.

The first 3 gears are taller in the lower 6th gear option. Any concern with that and 3.73's? If I'm going to end up with 4.10's anyways, I want the taller 6th gear. That's been my thoughts so far. I'll probably start with the 3.73's and tall 6th. How bad is it really with the 3.73's and .5:1 6th? Can the truck maintain 75-80 on the interstate in 6th? Or does it feel like it's lugging?

I'm not really too worried about having the Viper hydraulics. I'm generally one to do things the hard way. There are some generic aftermarket options that fit the Magnum. I think I'm probably going that route. If the Ford master cylinder doesn't work out, I'll be using a Wilwood master cylinder. I've got some experience sorting out manual trans conversions. I've got some good measurement tools at work, so I'll have all the stack-up stuff figured out before I put the transmission in place the first time.

I'm expecting a few aspects of my build to be different than others that have been done so far. I don't mean to be ungrateful about the knowledge that's here, but I'm hoping to further expand the options of others that would like to do this swap in the future.

 

[1qwktrk]

Dual disk is the only way to go imo, my clutch is lighter than the stock cobra and holds way more power. downside is price even the cheapest dual disk clutch setup is $850+
As far as gear ratios, while the viper ratios are livable with 3.73's and stock height tires the truck really has to work hard to maintain speed in 6th unless you are doing 85+ and 1st gear is a bit tall from a stop especially if you are taking off from a hill. in hind sight mustang ratios are a better choice if you don't want a gear swap. I went 4.10's but I could even think 4.30's would have been closer to stock while still having slightly taller OD. where as the mustang trans has the nice deep lower gears and a tiny bit more OD versus the Lightning stock 4r100.
As far as torque capacity... I have heard stock viper trans is good to 550+ lb/ft but was told that is direct capacity and is pretty nominal as it would take 550+ direct torque to fail. as you would have to dead hook all that torque with no tire spin or drivetrain absorbsion. I have had multiple clutch dumps at 6k and wide open throttle with 1.62 60ft's no signs of trans failure, but time only will tell I will be making considerably more power next trip out...

 

[svt-BansheeMan]

3.73s are doable for sure. Ive been doing it that way for over 2 years. I keep spending money else where instead of throwing the 4.10s I have here collecting dust.

 

[1qwktrk]

3.73s are doable for sure. Ive been doing it that way for over 2 years. I keep spending money else where instead of throwing the 4.10s I have here collecting dust.

Considering it's nearly a grand if you have a shop do it, it's a tough call to make.

 

[svt-BansheeMan]

True. That's about what the shop quoted me.

I don't mean to be ungrateful about the knowledge that's here

I enjoy people doing that. It gives others a different way to do it. I was very ignorant on the swap so i only did it how another guy did it so id have less problems. I wish i would of did a few things different but making mistakes opened my mind/eyes to why. So it's a lesson learned.

 

[TennTechMan]

1st gear is a bit tall from a stop especially if you are taking off from a hill. in hind sight mustang ratios are a better choice if you don't want a gear swap. I went 4.10's but I could even think 4.30's would have been closer to stock while still having slightly taller OD. where as the mustang trans has the nice deep lower gears and a tiny bit more OD versus the Lightning stock 4r100.

The Mustang first gear (2.66:1) is actually even taller than the Viper (2.93:1), right? It looks like the Mustang gearing and 4.1 gives the same overall 1st gear ratio as Viper gearing and 3.73. Mustang gearing and 4.1 has about the same top gear gearing as a 4r100 and 3.73. For any of you guys that are in to spreadsheets, check out the link below. I think if you save it out or copy/paste into excel you should be able to edit it. Let me know if it doesn't work.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuH-FSTwvSM1dDk1RzNxNDhnZ3lTendhVEliV2Fyb3c&usp=sharing

As far as torque capacity... I have heard stock viper trans is good to 550+ lb/ft but was told that is direct capacity and is pretty nominal as it would take 550+ direct torque to fail. as you would have to dead hook all that torque with no tire spin or drivetrain absorbsion. I have had multiple clutch dumps at 6k and wide open throttle with 1.62 60ft's no signs of trans failure, but time only will tell I will be making considerably more power next trip out...

The Tremec torque rating comes from the transmission surviving the rated torque for some huge number of hours. Seems like it was 1000 hours, but I don't remember exactly. It can handle small bursts of higher than the rating. But, BansheeMan has shown us they're not completely indestructible.

Since I'm going to buy new, I've been meaning to find out if there is any kind of warranty that Tremec offers.

 

[svt-BansheeMan]

I would think if you bought a trans new, they could put any gear combo you ask for at no additional cost. At least i would hope so. There' s some gear ratio charts on the net of various cars.

My only reason for 4.10's is to take off better around town. At the track or other gears while in town is perfectly fine. I just hate having to slip the clutch so much taking off normally from a red light.

 

[1qwktrk]

you know, I forgot you mentioned you were going with the magnum. they have different ratios then your off the shelf stock transmission.
viper car gearset
1st Gear: 2.66
2nd Gear: 1.78
3rd Gear:1.30
4th Gear: 1.00
5th Gear: .74
6th Gear: .5

 

[TennTechMan]

The Magnum has the same gear ratio options as the OE T-56 and TR-6060. A custom gear set would be very expensive, and there's no way Tremec would make it. Best case, I'd have to find someone that could cut some custom gears that would fit in the Magnum case. After buying a full Magnum transmission.

2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 .80 .63
OR
2.97 2.10 1.46 1.00 .74 .50


http://www.tremec.com/menu.php?m=104

 

[svt-BansheeMan]

That's what i meant. They have a few combos. I didnt mean you can pick any ratio and they will make my. Sry for the misunderstanding. I'll have to run the #'s and see how a higher 1st with my 3.73's will work when the time comes.

I noticed in my videos my truck only drops roughly 1,100 rpms according to the tach during a track run. Yet on the dyno, these trucks make a crap load of TQ around 3000-3500. I'm not sure if i should want the rpm's to drop lower between shifts. I know with twin screws, the curve keeps on up top. When i shifted at near 5,300 to 6k, i cant a few mph. But that has nothing to do with dropping more than 1,100 rpms.

 

[tpr103]

Got a question, sorry to hijack the thread. Has anyone used the 6spd trans out of the diesel f2-350?

 

[Dusten]

you could, but if you've ever shifted one, you'd know why you don't want it in there.