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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yep, you heard it. 20 lbs of boost. Now what? you all can see what I have in my signature so I won't repeat myself. This is way to much boost. I went Tuesday to Swanson and got dyno'd. With all this bling-bling it gave me 10 rwhp above my 4# and tune only. Now I got the Magnum and Plenum and a 6#der. 10 more RWHP, and 13 RWT. Wow just think of all the speeding tickets I'm going to get now. Anyway I need to drop the boost. Some say go back to your 4#der. Some say stay with the 6#der and change out the 2.93 upper to a 3 inch. Charles from Magnum Powers says he is now learning that on such high boost it won't let our valves close like they should so we loose HP. So Yes the boost has to come down. but wait, is there something else. Do I need to open the flow into the intake even more. I have been suggested to get a single blade throttle body and then get some shorties from bassani to go with my cats. Here's another $1,000. Oh before i forget I want to thank the lightning GOD's for keeping me bent over and and ramming it into me, Oh, don't forget the Vaseline, this time, because I'm tired of all these dry arse rammings ...............


Any suggestions (on the motor, not the arse rammings)
 

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I don't know all the facts but this is just another post along with personal feedback as of late to say that to much boost is bad on stock heads or valve springs I should say. Seems like the aftermarket blowers were a great idea and still are but other mods need to be done to utilize all the potential which many people weren't prepared for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Seems like all anybody can say is I told you so. But no one can say the best way to drop boost. Go back to a 4lb or go to a 3inch upper or both. I know any and all combo's will do it, but what's the right combo................
 

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Charles posted this on another forum.

"I ran a test last week that proves the stock intake valve springs are not adequate to close the valves or even keep the valves closed under boost. To perform the test I made an aluminum plate with a 1/4” pipe thread hole through it and bolted the plate over the intake port (intake manifold off engine) and screwed an air pressure regulator into the pipe thread. I then mounted a dial indicator over the valve stem and began to raise the air pressure to simulate boost pressure. When the air pressure reached 19 or 20 psi the valve started to open as indicated by the dial indicator and air escaping past the valve seat. At this point I took a screwdriver and pressed down on the valve stem and with just a few ounces of pressure I could modulate the amount of air escaping pass the valve seat, all that was with nothing moving. Now imagine that weak valve spring trying to overcome the inertia of the valve and roller follower at 5,000 rpm plus fighting even 15-psi boost. I am quite sure the intake valves are not closing as fast as they should and are therefore closing late. The intake valves closed when the piston begins to come up on the compression stroke. If the intake valves close late we will see a loss of power due to loss of compression caused by some of the intake charge being forced back into the intake manifold. After seeing this I started working with an engine tool manufacture to come up with some hand tools that will make replacement of the valve springs a snap with the heads and engine still in the truck because I am beginning to believe valve spring replacement with stronger aftermarket springs should be one of the first modifications we do along with bigger lowers, etc."
 
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I'd go with a larger upper, but I thought the hole point behind the MP was they need to be spun really hard like that?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You are right spin the hell out of them, But look what its doing. I will go to a 3inch upper and then add the fluidyne heat exchanger to keep all that crap cool. I should be okay after that......We shall see
 

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Ryan Allen said:
I'd go with a larger upper, but I thought the hole point behind the MP was they need to be spun really hard like that?
[/quote

Ryan, what you said is right. But it dosen't matter what blower you are runing cuz what racetested is saying is that with stock heads and springs high boost is over coming the springs.

I think if rumrunner goes to a 4 lb lower and a 2.69 upper taht would give him about 16 lb of boost. At that boost level the springs should be able to do what they are supposed to do.

I put 26 lb to mine with stock head and springs but the valves were 1mm over sized and lifted both heads.

With the same set up but only using a 4lb lower and 2.69 upper I made 467 RW hp and 566 ft of trq.

My new stage 3 cams have spring seat pressure of 115 lb as recomended by Crower them self

Peace,

Suavy
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
My whole gig for the magnum was to keep the engine cooler with more boost. I never thought I would get 20#'s but that's okay. After talking with Charles at magnum he is in agreement that the 3 inch upper will drop me 2 maybe 3 #'s. I tested at sea level so in my hood ( that's neighborhood) and all the other race tracks I go to I'm going to loose a pound or two anyway just in elevation. I also have found out that by going with the heat exchanger it to will cool down the air even more and colder air drops boost also, just don't know how much. I thank you all for your suggestions and will keep you posted on my daily soap. "As the blower turns" or "all my pulleys" or "Magnum hospital" drama, drama, drama............
 

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rumrunner

There is a lot of serious testing going on behind the scene to answer ALL our questions.
I like you fell short on HP and Tq from my expectation, but I have learned one thing,  DO NOT
only look at the Dyno Numbers when comparing these MP's to a ported Eaton. Although I may be a little shy of my 500/600 Goal off spray, I did hit 475/596 uncorrected, which is 38 HP and 33 Ft lbs of torque less than my 4 + 2 + Port + 75 HP of Nitrous Dyno on the original set up and stock motor. So I still gained a good 37HP and equal if not MORE Tq over my orig set up without the 75 HP of N20.

40HP over a ported Eaton, is actually about 65-75 HP over a stock Eaton, which in my opinion is pretty dam good.

Now to what I said about comparing, I will say this, the diff of my original set up (off spray) to my new set up (off spray) is a frigging difference of night and day.
If you look at my Mag Dyno, I have every bit of 580 ft lbs of Tq at a mere 3500RPM. This has proved to be 22 lbs of Tire Ripping Torque and unbelievable low end power, my truck is not even close to what it use to be, it's now an entire new experience, and quite a street Beast.

Mag Dyno


BTW, some of you remember me complaining a few weeks back about a stumble, it turns out we may have dyno'd it with at least 1 or 2 bad plugs, 3 were bad Sunday when I changed them. (I frigging hate NGK's I will prob go back to Denso's) The truck was still runing pretty dam good, but 3 tips were bad, and the truck was missing big time at WOT, which we felt on the Dyno the night we got the chart above. (I WAS lean originally, and Sal had his hands full controlling it in the upper RPM',s). We obviously hurt a plug when my AF was out of controll, since then the Pumps have been changed, the Factory muffler is gone, new plugs, new fuel filter, and a little tweaking of the tune. I have not been back on the Dyno YET.
ANTOHER WORDS WE HAVE MORE TO CLAIM STILL OFF NITROUS, and of course a TON to claim on. (and yes I def hurt at least one of those plugs last week when I tried throwing over 600 HP at it on the street, it down shifted, broke the tires lose, and over revved BIG TIME, I was also using a gasoline tune and not my n20 tune, stupid stupid stupid.....)

Anyone that knows me knows I got NO PROBLEM telling the truth about anything, no matter what it is. And If I believe in something and it dont work out I'll surly let everyone know that, shit I'll turn like a Bitch in Heat and go against it. But I AM NOT giving up on the Mag. The Sound, the Power, the Torque is the diff of night and day, not even close to what I use to have.  I still gained @ 40 HP over a Ported Eaton, and that now appears to have been done with at least one bad plug in the truck, maybe two. If you can bolt up to 75 HP on a L over a stock Eaton, and do it for the very fair price the Mag is, I STILL think it's da shit........  :smt023

Now to the springs

I indirectly mentioned this in a post a while ago without letting the cat out of the bag.
Sal and I have done much testing on the Mag and we report it ALL to Charles, GOOD OR BAD.
Charles has had this hunch for quite some time now, and after hearing some of our feedback he put together what I consider a very well controlled test. Bottom line is the factory springs will actually go soft and allow the Valves to OPEN up @ 20lbs of Boost. This is why in that post I mentioned had I ever considered this an issue, I would have been able to invest a mere hundred or two more and I would then be able to cliam more power.

Just to keep you informed, Charles has sent a L head out for testing and for developing to invent a special tool (diff than the Ford tool) to make changing the springs NOW, "on the motor" A LOT easier. When I hear more I will let you know.

Dont just go by the Numbers, Torque plays a huge part here, the RPM range of the power, the drop off point, and most important the feel and performance on the street and track.

Do you have both Dyno sheets to post ??? I would love to see them if possible..
Most important, believe me when I tell you A LOT of stuff is going on behind the scene to
get to the bottom of why some gain a ton of power, and some dont. The more I learn, the more I realize it is spring related and just diff years and diff trucks and diff miles on the truck will clearly explain WHY it's happening, and why diff people and getting diff results.

THE MAIN THING IS, CHARLES IS WORKING ON IT 24/7 TO FIGURE IT ALL OUT....
 

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We have to remember that the L's in a whole is a small
community and thats why when you have a problem
it seems like you are the only one... because you very well
maybe give or take. If you get the bug to mod there are
100's of L's that remain stock. So when you have problems
backup try to think what you changed to start the problem.
My tq has always been lower than what a lot claim but Im having a ball
trying to catch up... so dont keep busting your :hitem: just sell some parts and
try something else.
 

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Good info, but dissapointing since I just ordered an 8# lower. I made 19# boost
with the 6# lower and wanted a touch more pull from a roll. Seems now like a poor idea
until I do the heads and cams.
I guess I will have to hit it with a 50 shot of N2O.
Jim
 

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i was very shocked to hear that rumrunner only got a 10hp gain.

he has told me, that my truck was the reason he bought the magnum. so i feel some what responsible to help him out.

he is running the stock exhaust manifolds and throttle body. and i cant help but think he could really gain some power if those things were changed.

i would really like to see both dyno's cause if he only peaked 10 hp, but had a stronger curve then i could live with that.

one other possibility could be the crapola gas we have out west, every year it get worst
 

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Ct.TOPGUN said:
Good info, but dissapointing since I just ordered an 8# lower. I made 19# boost
with the 6# lower and wanted a touch more pull from a roll. Seems now like a poor idea
until I do the heads and cams.
I guess I will have to hit it with a 50 shot of N2O.
    Jim
YOU WILL NOT BE DISSAPOINTED, TRUST ME TOP GUN :D

I am running the 8lb Lower and 2.7 Upper, (it brings me an instant 18-19 lbs of Boost on WOT, and a quick progressive climb to 22lbs). After learning about this stock spring issue I decided last week to try and take some Boost away to see what would happen. I switched to a 3.0 Upper I happen to have for the Magnum, MAN OH MAN DID I LOSE POWER AND BOOST BIG TIME :cry: So much so that my 10 yr old son was in it for the first drive on that pulley, I swear to you we backed out of the driveway, I put it in drive, drove @ 100 ft and my son said, Daddy what happen to the Lightning it doesnt have that whine sound, and it feels differant, "what did you do", hehehehehehehe.

It seemed to take away a good amount of Boost (I was only showing @ 17- 18 at WOT) AND WOW did I lose power, sound, and performance. So much so that at lunch time I drove home and switched back to the 2.7 Upper :D and will stick with it forever, shit I'm still considering a 10lb Lower. If there's one thing it showed me, it's exactly what Charles has said since day one, THESE MAG'S LOVE BOOST AND NEED IT (and so do I) :smt045

Although the testing and results Charles has performed and proven clearly show me that yes the Valves start to open and bounch @ 20lbs of Boost, No one really knows exactly what we lose as a result of that "yet". He also found that just by pushing the spring hard with your thumb, you can actually push open the Valve, so it clearly does seem our stock springs are shit and very weak to say the least. Either that or Charles is very strong, hehehehehe
(god I wish I knew that while I had the heads off #@%##)

Hey I guess we can look at it as a high RPM Safety, "Boost Dump" :LOL

One thing is for sure, more pulley equals more boost equals more power
The spring issue is real, but we really dont know exactly what it's taken or preventing us to claim. What I do NOW know (from trying it), keeping the Boost under 20 lbs clearly took power and performance AWAY "FROM ME", there was a world of Diff, much less power than I expected, and as said within hours I put it back....

These Mag's DEF like A LOT of Boost
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
hey Rob, I sent you an email to your hotmail address with the dyno sheet. I couldn't figure how to post it here. But then again my VCR still flashes 12:00 :D. Riddle me this batman? if we replace the springs down the road with 20lbs of boost, then will the heads start to lift on a stock block? question #2 Would a fluid dyne heat exchanger drop boost to. I was told that cooler air can lower boost. That's why I want to run a 3 inch upper and then add the heat exchanger so then I should be good to go..........
 

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Cooler air is more dense and therefore will increase boost. This goes back to the days before many mods were available and people getting all excited about the cold days and seeing more boost and power. :D

The cooler air will just allow you to run more timing or keep you away from detonation sooner.
 

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RR

The pic didn't come through :(
All I got was an attachment with nothing, it's 0.0 MB
4E3.jpg (0.03 MB)

THE EASY WAY TO POST IT IS
All you have to do hit reply right below this box your typing in, you'll see "Additional Options"
Click it, and you'll see a Browse Box, you'll also see (more attachments) if you want to attach more than 1 pic, you can click it up to 5 times (5 pic's)
Then simply click a Browse box for ea pic, and point to where ever the pic is in your computer.
Click Enter and WAM your pic is posted


AS for the Exchanger, I honestly DO NOT know the answer, but I will find out.
I can tell you Sal has been Data Logging my runs and the Air Inlet Temps are simply amazing with this Mag, on one run I think the Temp only raised 8 degrees if I remember correctly for the entire Dyno run.

I spoke toCharles this morning about how much power I lost, and then re-gained by going back to the smaller pulley and Boost over 20lbs

Here was part of that conversation

some of these guys with stock blocks are doing so very well like fast Freddy and John Fastruck. They are making 500hp uncorrected and running 11.5's. Do some L's have weak springs and other strong one? Do all years have the same springs? The Mag can move a lot of air and make great boost with low exit air temperatures so something else in the system is limiting realizing the hp and the springs are clearly an issue.


Rob again
Since I always go against the grain, I think I'm going to try a 10 lb Lower myself and see what happens :D MAN I LOVE THIS BOOST, it is so tire ripping Fun that I want more, good thing my Boost guage goes to 30 lbs hu :D
 

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racetested said:
This goes back to the days before many mods were available and people getting all excited about the cold days and seeing more boost and power. :D
old days? i still love that extra power from those cool winter nights!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Here is a picture of my pretty blower though. My trucks name is lucille and on the plenum it says, "say hallo to my little friend" Now that I know how to post the pics I will post the dyno results when I get home after 5pm pacific time.
 

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WOW Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeautiful set up Bro, I LOVE IT [smilie=bow.gif]

Ok now I'm home for lunch and I can see the dyno pic you sent
It's very small and hard to read the numbers though.

For the record I agree your #'s are low now that I see them, even using SAE #'s.
The lowest SAE #'s I have here to look at were 452 HP / 567 Tq and I consider that very low and off, I do have higher #'s on Sals Computer but dont have a hard copy in front of me.
But unfortunately you'r DEF off :(

(first off do as I do and use Net #'s, they're higher. hehehehehehe) :D

(My numbers will DEF come up next time on the Dyno with the New Plugs, Pumps, Muffler, and tune changes) I expect to reach my goal of 480-500 HP and 600 TQ "OFF SPRAY" and am prob already there with the tweaking we did Wed Night, unfortunately Sals beast was on the Dyno/Lift and we couldnt bolt mine down that night, but the changes were already made.


Here's what you wrote and the pic you sent (I made it a little larger )



The first run was with my 4# tune and stock Eaton program. We just wanted to see where we were at. The second two runs were increasing timing with no better results, so he backed the timing back down to 13 for right now until the boost. If you can't read the numbers. it's 407/497. I couldn't post this on the site.
 
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