Low idle voltage... High output alternator - Lightning Forum | LightningRodder.com
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post #1 of 165 (permalink) Old 03-30-2018, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
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Low idle voltage... High output alternator

I finally got a change to test my charging system after this round of winter mods.

Engine at operating temp with lights, fans on, radio, etc on I am getting 11 volts at idle...

My setup:
J2 Fabrication 240 amp alternator
Big 3 "0" gauge wiring upgrade
Raptor e-fans (63 amps)
Two aux fans on my condenser (9.6 amps)
Taurus smog pump (15 amps)
Two Walbro 465 pumps (28 amps)
2.25" alternator pulley
750 idle rpm

Going to datalog with several different idle rpms once I get some revisions from Korn.

Suggestions? Afraid of overspinning the alternator.

4X4!!!, E85, Whipple 3.4, Monster inlet, 5" CAI, Custom midplate & spacer, Crusher Whipple TB, VMP3500, ported TFS heads with oversize valves, custom cams, GT supercar valvetrain, Manley H-beam rods, Diamond pistons, 465 pumps, Fore regulator, ID1300 injectors, built 4R100 , blower slut valve body, 2400 PI converter, superduty trans cooler, 3:55 gears, OBX longtube headers, Full 3" exhaust, superduty T.C., custom driveshafts, coilover conversion, custom drop knuckles & lower control arms

Last edited by Painless Autoworks; 04-14-2018 at 08:53 PM.
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post #2 of 165 (permalink) Old 03-30-2018, 07:07 PM
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Sir,
Hey Matt. A while back when I was adding the Alpine amps, I went through this. It seems while alternators have these high amp capabilities, we pay for it down low. I was never really able to get a full understanding, and so I can't explain why this happens. Has a lot to do with the "exciter" I believe.

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post #3 of 165 (permalink) Old 03-30-2018, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Painless Autoworks View Post
I finally got a change to test my charging system after this round of winter mods.

Engine at operating temp with lights, fans on, radio, etc on I am getting 11 volts at idle...

My setup:
J2 Fabrication 240 amp alternator
Big 3 "0" gauge wiring upgrade
Raptor e-fans
Two aux fans on my condenser
Taurus smog pump
Two Walbro 465 pumps
2.25" alternator pulley
750 idle rpm

Going to datalog with several different idle rpms once I get some revisions from Korn.

Suggestions? Afraid of overspinning the alternator.
What’s your voltage at 2500
RPM’s with all accessories on? Should be above 13v.
That’s my method normally testing alternators. Normally, we would need to adjust idle speed in the tune as you know
I remember asking Michael Singer how to increase voltage at idle as like you I have a lot of hungry items. He explained that we would need to run factory style pulley and adjust idle rpm in tune
Not saying this is right, just adding some info I ran across
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post #4 of 165 (permalink) Old 03-30-2018, 07:54 PM
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What are you using for an alternator?
The current draw is making the diodes over heat and will open, once they cool off they will close again.., MIKECR250 had the same problem.
I had to assemble my own..., I bought a 70 amp bridge rectifier, 200 amp stator and reused the rest of the alternator parts.
Since then, I've had zero voltage issues.

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post #5 of 165 (permalink) Old 03-30-2018, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P_Franko03 View Post
Whatís your voltage at 2500
RPMís with all accessories on? Should be above 13v.
Thatís my method normally testing alternators. Normally, we would need to adjust idle speed in the tune as you know
I remember asking Michael Singer how to increase voltage at idle as like you I have a lot of hungry items. He explained that we would need to run factory style pulley and adjust idle rpm in tune
Not saying this is right, just adding some info I ran across
2500 rpm it is 13.5-13.8 volts

1250 rpm is 12.5 volts
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post #6 of 165 (permalink) Old 03-30-2018, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
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What are you using for an alternator?
The current draw is making the diodes over heat and will open, once they cool off they will close again.., MIKECR250 had the same problem.
I had to assemble my own..., I bought a 70 amp bridge rectifier, 200 amp stator and reused the rest of the alternator parts.
Since then, I've had zero voltage issues.
240 amp from J2 Fabrication

4X4!!!, E85, Whipple 3.4, Monster inlet, 5" CAI, Custom midplate & spacer, Crusher Whipple TB, VMP3500, ported TFS heads with oversize valves, custom cams, GT supercar valvetrain, Manley H-beam rods, Diamond pistons, 465 pumps, Fore regulator, ID1300 injectors, built 4R100 , blower slut valve body, 2400 PI converter, superduty trans cooler, 3:55 gears, OBX longtube headers, Full 3" exhaust, superduty T.C., custom driveshafts, coilover conversion, custom drop knuckles & lower control arms

Last edited by Painless Autoworks; 03-30-2018 at 09:24 PM.
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post #7 of 165 (permalink) Old 03-30-2018, 11:37 PM
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How are you controlling the raptor efans? I have the same issue after the engine compartment gets heat soaked and the efans kick on. I am using a F5 fan controller and both of my fans come on at the same time to 50%. They ramp up as needed but in the 2 years I have owned them,they have NEVER went above 50% as my temps stay around 175F. I believe factory f150s have the efans kick on one at a time as needed and they run 100% rpm.

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Pb so far 11.06 @ 124 with a 1.55 60'.
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post #8 of 165 (permalink) Old 03-30-2018, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Certified Drunk View Post
What are you using for an alternator?
The current draw is making the diodes over heat and will open, once they cool off they will close again.., MIKECR250 had the same problem.
I had to assemble my own..., I bought a 70 amp bridge rectifier, 200 amp stator and reused the rest of the alternator parts.
Since then, I've had zero voltage issues.
Care to share? I wouldn't mind building a spare high amp alternator out of my reman that is taking up space. I would like something that is at least 240ish amps. Hopefully closer to 200amps at idle.

2.3 whipple,built motor,jj fuel system,a1 trans
Pb so far 11.06 @ 124 with a 1.55 60'.
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post #9 of 165 (permalink) Old 03-31-2018, 12:15 AM
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Something is definitely wrong. I also have a heavy electrical draw because of all the stuff I have. In idle with everything turned on including AC I’m still at 14. This is with an upgraded 220-240 amp unit and factory pulley.

I would go back to factory pulley. If that doesn’t work/help have the alternator checked or do as CD mentioned. I’m pretty sure your alternator is the culprit.

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post #10 of 165 (permalink) Old 03-31-2018, 12:25 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baja5bss View Post
How are you controlling the raptor efans? I have the same issue after the engine compartment gets heat soaked and the efans kick on. I am using a F5 fan controller and both of my fans come on at the same time to 50%. They ramp up as needed but in the 2 years I have owned them,they have NEVER went above 50% as my temps stay around 175F. I believe factory f150s have the efans kick on one at a time as needed and they run 100% rpm.
I am using the wiring kit from Harley#356.

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post #11 of 165 (permalink) Old 03-31-2018, 12:26 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by NMSVT View Post
Something is definitely wrong. I also have a heavy electrical draw because of all the stuff I have. In idle with everything turned on including AC Iím still at 14. This is with an upgraded 220-240 amp unit and factory pulley.

I would go back to factory pulley. If that doesnít work/help have the alternator checked or do as CD mentioned. Iím pretty sure your alternator is the culprit.
What does your electrical system consist of?

4X4!!!, E85, Whipple 3.4, Monster inlet, 5" CAI, Custom midplate & spacer, Crusher Whipple TB, VMP3500, ported TFS heads with oversize valves, custom cams, GT supercar valvetrain, Manley H-beam rods, Diamond pistons, 465 pumps, Fore regulator, ID1300 injectors, built 4R100 , blower slut valve body, 2400 PI converter, superduty trans cooler, 3:55 gears, OBX longtube headers, Full 3" exhaust, superduty T.C., custom driveshafts, coilover conversion, custom drop knuckles & lower control arms
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post #12 of 165 (permalink) Old 03-31-2018, 08:03 AM Thread Starter
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What about adding a second alternator?
Thinking.....

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post #13 of 165 (permalink) Old 03-31-2018, 08:31 AM Thread Starter
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This is my 0 gauge "big 3" setup:
Block to frame rail (ground)
Batt neg to frame rail (ground)
Alt to firewall solenoid to battery (positive)

I also left all the stock wiring except the alternator to firewall solenoid cable.

It has been suggested that I move the starter ground wire location on the firewall to the stud currently used by the battery ground cable. Another member had this issue and adding it solved the problem. Going to try it and post the results.

Edit: looking at the diagrams I will be running a 0 gauge cable from my battery neg post to firewall/chassis. The starter negative cable goes directly to the battery negative terminal from the factory.

4X4!!!, E85, Whipple 3.4, Monster inlet, 5" CAI, Custom midplate & spacer, Crusher Whipple TB, VMP3500, ported TFS heads with oversize valves, custom cams, GT supercar valvetrain, Manley H-beam rods, Diamond pistons, 465 pumps, Fore regulator, ID1300 injectors, built 4R100 , blower slut valve body, 2400 PI converter, superduty trans cooler, 3:55 gears, OBX longtube headers, Full 3" exhaust, superduty T.C., custom driveshafts, coilover conversion, custom drop knuckles & lower control arms

Last edited by Painless Autoworks; 03-31-2018 at 10:48 AM.
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post #14 of 165 (permalink) Old 03-31-2018, 10:53 AM
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Question IF IT WAS WORKING OK WHEN INSTALLED SOMETHING IS WRONG

If It was working ok when installed something is wrong with alternator, With this size alternator at 750 RPM it should be charging at 750 RPM's at startup. I have heavy 4 gauge with inline fuse to alternator from battery also kept the factory wiring hookup as well mine charges at 700 RPM 14.5 volts then it will kick back to around 13.4 and back up again as volts are needed. My alternator is a 220. Of course an incorrect ground not being tight can cause a lot of problems i ran another ground which i made up with heavy ends from threaded bolt that sticks out of firewall next to battery installed nut and washer then i was done this was several years years ago but i also recheck ever so often to make sure everything is still tight.

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post #15 of 165 (permalink) Old 03-31-2018, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
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If It was working ok when installed something is wrong with alternator, With this size alternator at 750 RPM it should be charging at 750 RPM's at startup. I have heavy 4 gauge with inline fuse to alternator from battery also kept the factory wiring hookup as well mine charges at 700 RPM 14.5 volts then it will kick back to around 13.4 and back up again as volts are needed. My alternator is a 220. Of course an incorrect ground not being tight can cause a lot of problems i ran another ground which i made up with heavy ends from threaded bolt that sticks out of firewall next to battery installed nut and washer then i was done this was several years years ago but i also recheck ever so often to make sure everything is still tight.
What components do you have pulling draw on your electrical system?

If the additional ground does not fix the issue then I will look into the alternator. I installed the alternator at the same time as my raptor fans. I don't have any charging info prior.

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